Allotment (Buying Powers Setting)

[Adelene]

I thought of this a while back, and people've been enthusiastic about it in IM and on IRC, so I'm going to try to put it together into an actually runnable setting.

...also my brain is not doing prose today, so here, have a chatlog:

(12/2/2016 10:10:33 PM) Adelene: And if I'm going to worldbuild a world I think I'd rather do the other magic system I recently came up with.
(12/2/2016 10:13:08 PM) Ezra: Do we know this other one, Adelene?
(12/2/2016 10:13:11 PM) Adelene: The new magic system has some major societal effects; I think I could do some really cool things with it with that but I'd have to think about it more than I seem naturally inclined to.
(12/2/2016 10:13:23 PM) Adelene: I've talked about the new one but I don't think here and definitely not on the forum.
(12/2/2016 10:13:49 PM) Adelene: ...or, some here, but it'd've been easy to miss.
(12/2/2016 10:13:53 PM) Adelene: anyway
(12/2/2016 10:14:43 PM) Teceler: was that the one with the -- permanent magic effects out of a certain capacity using symbolism from sets of shapes?
(12/2/2016 10:14:48 PM) Adelene: mmhmm
(12/2/2016 10:15:14 PM) Adelene: In this world, everyone of the primary sentient species has a certain amount of magic potential - all /about/ the same, there's some variance but it's in the 90-110 range rather than the 1-1000 range - which can be spent by performing a not-obviously-related mental ritual to get a permanent magical ability.
(12/2/2016 10:16:32 PM) Adelene: Various cultures have various suites of abilities that are considered standard, and someone without those abilities will be disabled in that culture, sometimes only minorly but possibly substantially. This cuts down on cross-cultural things considerably as someone from one culture will generally be disabled in another one.
(12/2/2016 10:16:51 PM) Ezra: Ooh I do remember that one, it's cool!
(12/2/2016 10:17:00 PM) Adelene: ^^
(12/2/2016 10:17:37 PM) Ezra: And yeah, lots of room for worldbuilding
(12/2/2016 10:17:52 PM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/2/2016 10:17:57 PM) Moriwen: oooooh, I don't know this setting but it sounds really cool
(12/2/2016 10:18:02 PM) Adelene: :D
(12/2/2016 10:19:21 PM) Adelene: There's also a secondary sentient species - Lurker-compatable - that doesn't get permanent magical abilities at all, but can gather mana from their surroundings - it's a rare resource, generated by the primary sentient species when they get their powers - and spend it via the same rituals to get any power temporarily.
(12/2/2016 10:20:00 PM) Adelene: The primary species doesn't realize that the secondary one is sentient but if you get them working together they can do an infinite mana hack pretty handily.
(12/2/2016 10:20:26 PM) Teceler: do they actually even know the secondary one /exists/ I forget
(12/2/2016 10:20:53 PM) Adelene: Which is also useful for the primary-species person because the secondary-species person can do /any/ ritual and doesn't spend an irreplaceable resource learning what a new ritual does.
(12/2/2016 10:21:25 PM) Adelene: The secondary species isn't entirely unknown but they don't live everywhere and they're not commonly known of outside their range, think wombat, not dog.
(12/2/2016 10:21:35 PM) Teceler: aha
(12/2/2016 10:22:51 PM) Ezra: (I remember a comic about a wombat. It was a good comic.)
(12/2/2016 10:22:57 PM) Teceler: ...Digger?
(12/2/2016 10:23:00 PM) Ezra: Yes
(12/2/2016 10:23:03 PM) Adelene: *nodnod* v. good.
(12/2/2016 10:23:11 PM) Teceler: it was good!
(12/2/2016 10:24:15 PM) Ezra: Do you know more things about this world? Got any cultures yet?
(12/2/2016 10:24:51 PM) Adelene: I came up with some things about how trade works, actually, but no useable cultures yet.
(12/2/2016 10:25:46 PM) Ezra: I'm imagining "AUSJ elves" for the level of cultural interoperability
(12/2/2016 10:26:24 PM) Ezra: Like "what do you mean you can't find the door" and all
(12/2/2016 10:26:34 PM) Adelene: Traders are basically their own thing; they pick up their home culture's power suite or at least a subset of it, and then also there's a separate power suite for traders that places near docks are built to be accessible to.
(12/2/2016 10:27:10 PM) Adelene: 'what do you mean you can't find the door' is usually not a thing but 'what do you mean you can't just hop up to the third floor entrance' would be.
(12/2/2016 10:30:10 PM) Ezra: (This whole setting is very soothing to the "social! model! of disability!" impulses that went into the design of measuretwice for the MWF)
(12/2/2016 10:30:48 PM) Adelene: (sensory powers exist but the broad-usefulness-to-cost ratio isn't favorable enough for an entire culture to consider them standard usually; you /would/ see someone picking something like that up for job reasons or maybe a hobby or just because they liked it but they'd pick one they /personally/ wanted and expected to get specific use out of.)
(12/2/2016 10:30:56 PM) Adelene: ^^, Ezra.
(12/2/2016 10:32:19 PM) Adelene: anyway
(12/2/2016 10:32:21 PM) Adelene: traders
(12/2/2016 10:32:29 PM) Ezra: Traders!
(12/2/2016 10:32:29 PM) Adelene: tend to have a minor flight power
(12/2/2016 10:33:27 PM) Adelene: and then there's tech to support that, like, they can't usually do very much cargo directly with the flight, but give them a hang glider or a tiny blimp type thing and they'll get a ton of use out of it.
(12/2/2016 10:33:55 PM) sonatagreen: ...that makes a lot of sense
(12/2/2016 10:34:12 PM) sonatagreen: (i could see a wind-control power with a hot air balloon, alternatively)
(12/2/2016 10:34:54 PM) Adelene: I'm not sure hot air balloons work at the relevant scales - someone might try it eventually, but the usual use case of the flight is loading and unloading ships and not having to worry about man-overboard situations.
(12/2/2016 10:37:14 PM) Adelene: ...they also have translation magic, obviously
(12/2/2016 10:37:30 PM) Adelene: and probably some relevant cognitive enhancements?
(12/2/2016 10:37:44 PM) Ezra: Translation v. important for trade!
(12/2/2016 10:38:27 PM) Adelene: A magical sense of direction doesn't seem like it'd be absolutely ubiquitous but just 'north is that way' seems like it should be super cheap so it might be.
(12/2/2016 10:40:23 PM) Adelene: (magical sense of /location/ is more expensive and not all of them have it but it's definitely a thing)
(12/2/2016 10:41:10 PM) Ezra: Relative price of "north is that way" vs "Cultural Site is that way"? If you have a favorite cultural site to navigate by, pray to, etc.?
(12/2/2016 10:42:14 PM) Adelene: 'Cultural Site is that way' is probably not a thing you can get, functionally.
(12/2/2016 10:43:21 PM) Adelene: 'The place I'm thinking of is that way' is a thing you could get, but it'd be pretty expensive, likely more expensive than just a personal-location awareness power.
(12/2/2016 10:44:53 PM) Adelene: Part of how this works is that the rituals are discovered by trial and error; similar rituals do similar things but you don't know /what/ similar thing until you try it, and trying costs however much of your capacity; you don't even know how /much/ of your capacity it'll cost ahead of time.
(12/2/2016 10:45:04 PM) Teceler: ouch
(12/2/2016 10:45:31 PM) Ezra: Hmm, okay. That tells me something about what's possible
(12/2/2016 10:46:01 PM) Adelene: So while there is some ritual that would point you at Stonehenge rather than the north pole, nobody's taken the effort to discover it. And they might not've even bothered to discover the north pole one, they may be navigating by one or two arbitrary points.
(12/2/2016 10:46:51 PM) Ezra: And yeah, as before I'm picturing "Sadde+Lurker crack this wide open with interspecies synergy."
(12/2/2016 10:47:00 PM) Adelene: mmmmmhmm
(12/2/2016 10:47:09 PM) Adelene: it is a huge huge huge deal, yes.
(12/2/2016 10:48:35 PM) Ezra: I don't know what seems specifically Sadde about it
(12/2/2016 10:48:46 PM) Adelene: It seems very Sadde to me, too ^^
(12/2/2016 10:48:59 PM) Adelene: Bells a bit as well, but mostly Sadde.
(12/2/2016 10:49:09 PM) Adelene: Because interpersonal.
(12/2/2016 10:49:13 PM) Ezra: Yes. Somehow
(12/2/2016 10:52:22 PM) Adelene: (Navigating by a couple completely arbitrary points works just fine, though. People can teach each other the rituals and they work the same for everybody, so navigating by the standard points is just how it's taught.)
(12/2/2016 10:55:03 PM) Ezra: I'd guess that that's how it's done, in this system, from its aesthetics, rather than by any astronomical north
(12/2/2016 10:55:41 PM) Ezra: Though if one of the points is north-ish, it might be named north, like magnetic north is
(12/2/2016 10:56:00 PM) Adelene: They may've bothered to find one that does north? I'm not sure there's a significant enough advantage to that, but if there is they might've kept trying until it clicked for someone.
(12/2/2016 10:56:32 PM) Adelene: I think they're going by arbitrary points and the points have names, though, now that I've actually thought about it.
(12/2/2016 10:58:16 PM) Adelene: (The north one would actually be slightly less costly to get, but so much harder to find that unless there's some other advantage to it no individual person would have bothered trying once the standards were standardized.)
(12/2/2016 11:00:34 PM) Ezra: *nod*
(12/2/2016 11:00:58 PM) Ezra: Is there more about traders?
(12/2/2016 11:01:04 PM) Adelene: Not yet.
(12/2/2016 11:05:14 PM) Ezra: Okay.
(12/2/2016 11:06:01 PM) Ezra: Maybe if you decide to thread it, your co-author will want to help design cultures?
(12/2/2016 11:07:32 PM) Adelene: yeah, maybe
(12/2/2016 11:08:40 PM) Adelene: I don't actually think most of the interesting plot happens with the traders - it is an Earth and I think the secondary species is in central south america, not on a coast - but maybe Rockeye would like to thread Nick there briefly or something.
(12/2/2016 11:09:02 PM) Ezra: Have you checked if Pedro is interested in threading Sadde?
(12/2/2016 11:09:25 PM) Adelene: iirc he is but I'd need to worldbuild first.
(12/2/2016 11:10:44 PM) Ezra: Ok.
(12/2/2016 11:11:06 PM) Ezra: And then you're back to: worlds keep needing worldbuilding.
(12/2/2016 11:14:32 PM) Adelene: yup
(12/2/2016 11:18:13 PM) Adelene: Honestly I /kinda/ want to leave vast chunks of this world unbuilt, so other people can write in it too and build their own stuff.
(12/2/2016 11:18:53 PM) Adelene: But I do still need to put together a culture or two if I want to write in it at all.

(12/2/2016 11:41:25 PM) Adelene: hmm. do you guys want to come up with powers and I can refine my intuitions for how much they should cost?
(12/2/2016 11:41:50 PM) Teceler: The Nicoles want to hear more about sensory powers XD
(12/2/2016 11:42:52 PM) Adelene: I think for convenience' sake I'm going to say that power costs come in integer values from 1 to 100, with small powers costing 5 or less, medium ones costing 6-15, large ones costing 16-30, and huge ones costing more than that. Average person has 100 points to spend, absolute maximum is around 120.
(12/2/2016 11:43:48 PM) Ezra: Template powers: mental opacity. Communicative telepathy. Body sex swap. Metallokinesis.
(12/2/2016 11:45:35 PM) Adelene: 'Know the direction to a specific random point' costs 1. Minor (self-only, slowish, height limited) flight costs 7 or 8; a /nice/ flight power would cost 25 or so. Mental opacity... I feel like that comes in types, let me think about it...
(12/2/2016 11:46:55 PM) Ezra: Is north then not cheaper than random point?
(12/2/2016 11:47:40 PM) sonatagreen: "north" is "direction to the north pole" i.e. "direction to a specific nonrandom point".
(12/2/2016 11:47:59 PM) Adelene: North is cheaper but not cheaper enough to register on this scale. In reality the costs aren't integer values, I'm just making it easier on myself here.
(12/2/2016 11:48:08 PM) Ezra: Ah I see
(12/2/2016 11:48:52 PM) Adelene: North is cheaper because it's... *waves hands* less arbitrary? The magic has to do less work to specify it?
(12/2/2016 11:49:03 PM) sonatagreen: ok
(12/2/2016 11:49:22 PM) Adelene: But it's not /much/ less work, it might be like .85 or .9 to some other point's 1.0
(12/2/2016 11:50:51 PM) Adelene: Mental opacity costs about 10 or 12; mental /protection/ a la Bells is spendy, in the 20-30 range.
(12/2/2016 11:51:38 PM) sonatagreen: Eidetic memory; "photographic" memory that has to be specifically activated rather than being always on; 360° vision; Word of Recall (teleport home); automatic Word of Recall that activates to get you out of dangerous/deadly circumstances?
(12/2/2016 11:52:20 PM) Ezra: So a Bell is likely to have invested heavily there even if in a mental opacity society for some reason.
(12/2/2016 11:52:33 PM) sonatagreen: (Word of Recall has one destination per caster, is how it works)
(12/2/2016 11:53:28 PM) Adelene: Teleporting 'home' is not a thing; teleporting to some pre-specified point (and again there's probably a /thing/ with this, somebody's built a hospital there probably) feels like it should be about 4 if it's just you or 6-8 if you can take a passenger, which is what people with that actually get.
(12/2/2016 11:55:02 PM) sonatagreen: how hard would it be to modify the teleport's destination by like ten miles in a random direction, and then build your house there? or is it not possible to get that kind of control over the kind/degree of modification
(12/2/2016 11:55:35 PM) Adelene: (12/2/2016 10:44:53 PM) Adelene: Part of how this works is that the rituals are discovered by trial and error; similar rituals do similar things but you don't know /what/ similar thing until you try it, and trying costs however much of your capacity; you don't even know how /much/ of your capacity it'll cost ahead of time.
(12/2/2016 11:56:03 PM) sonatagreen: OK.
(12/2/2016 11:56:30 PM) Adelene: So you could, maybe, do that, but it wouldn't be even /slightly/ cost-effective.
(12/2/2016 11:57:00 PM) Adelene: Also getting powers costs more the further from age 15 you are.
(12/2/2016 11:57:08 PM) sonatagreen: ...intriguing
(12/2/2016 11:57:39 PM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/2/2016 11:58:33 PM) sonatagreen: how about "teleport to a particular random location in a particular random world in the same sheaf"? (same as hospital-teleport but cross-world in-sheaf)
(12/2/2016 11:58:34 PM) Ezra: Is there an equivalent variation in casting prices for our South American friends?
(12/2/2016 11:59:02 PM) Adelene: Ezra: more expensive things cost more mana per unit of time, yes.
(12/2/2016 11:59:34 PM) Ezra: But like equivalent to the age thing?
(12/2/2016 11:59:45 PM) Adelene: that, no.
(12/3/2016 12:00:26 AM) Adelene: sonata: for things with locations the location can either be 'where the power-haver is thinking of at the moment' which is expensive, or 'a specific location baked into the spell', which is cheap but then you have to discover a specific ritual for each location.
(12/3/2016 12:00:49 AM) Adelene: and discovering new rituals is /very/ expensive.
(12/3/2016 12:00:55 AM) sonatagreen: Always knowing exactly what time it is?
(12/3/2016 12:01:03 AM) Adelene: fourish
(12/3/2016 12:01:19 AM) Teceler: does the cost of that one depend on the granuality?
(12/3/2016 12:01:35 AM) Adelene: granularity is determined by the ritual, but yes
(12/3/2016 12:02:02 AM) Adelene: and for that one I bet you do have some choice in the matter, it seems like a relatively safe thing to play with trying new things with.
(12/3/2016 12:02:47 AM) Adelene: (basically you're not going to get something /useless/ by modifying that ritual.)
(12/3/2016 12:02:53 AM) sonatagreen: are rituals always something you never do accidentally?
(12/3/2016 12:02:57 AM) Adelene: mmhmm
(12/3/2016 12:03:19 AM) Ezra: ("Don't think of a pink elephant! ")
(12/3/2016 12:03:23 AM) sonatagreen: do you ever get a nonritual when trying to modify an existing one?
(12/3/2016 12:03:37 AM) Adelene: no
(12/3/2016 12:03:54 AM) Adelene: if you're intending to do a ritual, what you do is then a ritual
(12/3/2016 12:04:02 AM) Ezra: Adelene are my other template power suggestions in the buffer or should I repeat them or ?
(12/3/2016 12:04:14 AM) Adelene: I can read back.
(12/3/2016 12:04:33 AM) sonatagreen: have people built cities or something around the common arbitrary navigation points?
(12/3/2016 12:05:50 AM) sonatagreen: how easy is it to mess up a ritual and accidentally do a modified version?
(12/3/2016 12:06:04 AM) Adelene: Being at an arbitrary navigation point isn't that useful, I don't think.
(12/3/2016 12:06:49 AM) Adelene: There's probably a city where it just happens to have been a good place to put a city and also near a navigation point, but those are relatively unrelated traits.
(12/3/2016 12:06:50 AM) sonatagreen: Well, it seems to me you could find that point without the rituals for the other two, so it's cheaper to navigate to those places.
(12/3/2016 12:07:00 AM) sonatagreen: All roads lead to Rome
(12/3/2016 12:07:28 AM) Adelene: I mean
(12/3/2016 12:07:35 AM) Ezra: "all roads lead to Rome. because it is really easy to build roads radially with this navigation spell."
(12/3/2016 12:07:42 AM) Ezra: Yes
(12/3/2016 12:07:58 AM) Adelene: once you have the know-where-the-points-are powers, you have them, and traders would still need to have them to get to everywhere /else/, so.
(12/3/2016 12:08:18 AM) sonatagreen: I guess.
(12/3/2016 12:08:31 AM) Adelene: And location is important for cities.
(12/3/2016 12:08:39 AM) Adelene: like, geography and stuff.
(12/3/2016 12:08:59 AM) sonatagreen: However I am now imagining roads along navpoint-radii the way my hometown has roads on a n/s-e/w grid
(12/3/2016 12:09:41 AM) Adelene: navpoints are mostly a thing for ship-based travel, not land-based.
(12/3/2016 12:10:00 AM) Ezra: Aw, arc roads seemed aesthetic
(12/3/2016 12:10:05 AM) Adelene: that whole 'not getting lost when out of sight of land' consideration.
(12/3/2016 12:10:14 AM) sonatagreen: well, most places it would just look like parallel lines
(12/3/2016 12:10:32 AM) sonatagreen: like north/south roads do at most latitudes
(12/3/2016 12:11:00 AM) sonatagreen: but it would make sort of squashed-hexagon shaped blocks i think
(12/3/2016 12:11:04 AM) sonatagreen: or maybe triangles
(12/3/2016 12:12:34 AM) Teceler: '"all roads lead to Rome. because it is really easy to build roads radially with this navigation spell."' pfff
(12/3/2016 12:16:13 AM) sonatagreen: on further investigation it seems it would make a variety of shapes
(12/3/2016 12:18:16 AM) Adelene: Communicative telepathy: 14-15
(12/3/2016 12:18:16 AM) Adelene: Body sex swap: 8-20, depending on details
(12/3/2016 12:18:16 AM) Adelene: Metallokinesis: 25ish
(12/3/2016 12:18:16 AM) Adelene: Eidetic memory: 13-14
(12/3/2016 12:18:16 AM) Adelene: "photographic" memory that has to be specifically activated rather than being always on: 3-8, depending on whether it captures things you're not noticing at the time
(12/3/2016 12:18:16 AM) Adelene: 360° vision: 4-6
(12/3/2016 12:18:16 AM) Adelene: Word of Recall (teleport home): n/a, closest equivalent is 4-8 depending on cargo capacity
(12/3/2016 12:18:16 AM) Adelene: automatic Word of Recall that activates to get you out of dangerous/deadly circumstances: 15-20 (not sure this even exists though, contingency magic seems unaesthetic)
(12/3/2016 12:19:30 AM) sonatagreen: you can probably get most of the benefit of auto-WoR just by training a reflex
(12/3/2016 12:19:40 AM) Adelene: mmhmm
(12/3/2016 12:20:21 AM) Adelene: Also I feel like there's a minor thing in the vein of communicative telepathy that costs much less than that that at least one culture considers standard.
(12/3/2016 12:20:39 AM) Adelene: Might be heavily range-limited or really low detail or both.
(12/3/2016 12:21:12 AM) sonatagreen: requires eye contact, text-only or equivalent?
(12/3/2016 12:22:20 AM) sonatagreen: ...that would be a really mean/fitting place to put a Rescue, mandatory eye-contact plus strictly verbal communication
(12/3/2016 12:22:25 AM) Adelene: requiring eye contact doesn't seem like a thing (in general arbitrary requirements aren't) but you might need to be within, like, standard verbal communication range or even closer than that, and /text/ only doesn't seem like the thing but something roughly that limiting could be.
(12/3/2016 12:23:05 AM) sonatagreen: you have to be able to see the person you're sending to / receiving from?
(12/3/2016 12:23:12 AM) Adelene: that's possible, yeah.
(12/3/2016 12:23:36 AM) Adelene: what actually feels right to me with this is that you practically have to be on top of the person, range is only a few feet.
(12/3/2016 12:23:42 AM) sonatagreen: oooh.
(12/3/2016 12:24:18 AM) sonatagreen: Really affects the social rules about personal space.
(12/3/2016 12:24:22 AM) Adelene: *nodnod*
(12/3/2016 12:25:10 AM) Adelene: though in that case I expect people don't actually telepathy with randoms
(12/3/2016 12:25:24 AM) sonatagreen: Small vs. large tables at restaurants, boardrooms, diplomatic negotiations; who sits next to who; traditional gender rules about opposite-sex teenagers sitting close enough to be brainphone-sexting
(12/3/2016 12:25:27 AM) Ezra: What are its key functions that speech does not provide?
(12/3/2016 12:25:38 AM) sonatagreen: Impossible to overhear, I assume.
(12/3/2016 12:25:48 AM) Ezra: Privacy, talking with your mouth full
(12/3/2016 12:26:09 AM) Adelene: probably more detail about shades of meaning or emotional context or both
(12/3/2016 12:26:17 AM) sonatagreen: (Spies. Deep Throat. Prison security.)
(12/3/2016 12:28:21 AM) Adelene: Also, like, above and beyond any /practical/ advantage, it's a signaling thing, telepathing with someone is meaningful just by itself.
(12/3/2016 12:29:01 AM) Ezra: One party has it and the other doesn't. Send only? No go?
(12/3/2016 12:29:07 AM) Adelene: Send only.
(12/3/2016 12:30:33 AM) Adelene: ...man now I want to see what a Maitimo is like in a culture like that.
(12/3/2016 12:30:53 AM) Ezra: Ooh
(12/3/2016 12:31:11 AM) Ezra: Lintamande is on, it might be possible to ask
(12/3/2016 12:33:14 AM) Ezra: Have you thought of other things about this culture yet?
(12/3/2016 12:33:44 AM) Ezra: Perhaps a power one of their neighbors considers standard that they don't take?
(12/3/2016 12:40:47 AM) Adelene: have not, no
(12/3/2016 12:41:07 AM) Adelene: (12:35:41 AM) Adelene: Curious what Maitimo is like if you put him there.
(12/3/2016 12:41:07 AM) Adelene: (12:37:05 AM) Kelsey: Maitimos in general conform pretty hard
(12/3/2016 12:41:07 AM) Adelene: (12:37:15 AM) Kelsey: but they'd probably get familiar w/ everyone they could of course
(12/3/2016 12:41:07 AM) Adelene: (12:37:48 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/3/2016 12:41:07 AM) Adelene: (12:38:43 AM) Adelene: I think this question was underspecified. :P
(12/3/2016 12:42:05 AM) Ezra: Heh.
(12/3/2016 12:43:07 AM) Ezra: I guess it takes more cultural details to get more effects there.
(12/3/2016 12:46:04 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/3/2016 12:46:08 AM) Adelene: we're talking ^^
(12/3/2016 12:46:14 AM) Ezra: Cool. :)

(12/3/2016 1:08:36 AM) Ezra: Are there powers to make stuff levitate on an ongoing basis, like a sky house?
(12/3/2016 1:09:12 AM) Adelene: Nope, no unsustained effects.
(12/3/2016 1:10:11 AM) Adelene: automatic effects are a thing but the person with the power has to be around. I suppose in theory you could have a power like that where 'around' was basically anywhere on the planet, but it'd be super super expensive.

[Moriwen]

This setting is great and I totally want to build a culture in it.

Miscellaneous questions! Feel free not to answer all/heavily use "not sure" as an answer, of course. :)

What sort of point cost is typical for a culture's "standard" power suite? Is it like "100, you only get something extra if you're lucky enough to have room, and some people can't even afford all of it?" Or "75, you have room for a couple of custom things but that's it?" Or "50, it's a big chunk of your points but there's still lots of room for customization"?

Does the "further from age 15" thing tend to cause 15 to be the standard age of adulthood? I'd imagine it might. Or I could imagine, say, girls in patriarchal cultures getting married off at 13 so their husband would have a chance to tell them to pick powers convenient to his job/lifestyle.

On which note: how much influence do other people tend to have on what powers someone picks, outside of the standard suite? Do most people discuss it extensively with parents/elders/friends/mentors/community leaders? Or is it something deeply personal? Might your parents/boss/government actually require you to pick certain powers?

Are there powers that aren't standard for everyone, but correspond to a standard role in the community? A truth-detection power that you pick up if you're going to be the arbiter, for instance, or an empathy power for a counselor?

How weird is it to voluntarily forgo part of the standard power suite for your culture in order to make room for something else you want? Is that a "well, you're a bit quirky" or "what the HECK is wrong with YOU? kids, stay away from them" matter?

What kind of power level in effects could you get from spending all your points on a single power? I could imagine people doing that on a power that's beneficial for the community; it would leave them effectively-profoundly-disabled, but then presumably the community would take care of them in return. You could have them filling a sort of priest-like role, where they're honored and cared for in return for their sacrifice.

I assume that due to how the rituals work, it's impractical to get powers which target a particular other person? (e.g. "always know the direction to my twin," "telepathic bond with my spouse")

Could you get, say, a "be prettier" ritual, or would that not work (or turn anyone who used it into the same pretty person)? It seems like it might work, given that sex swap does, especially if it takes the form of "increase facial symmetry/smooth out skin blemishes/etc" (like diamond vampires).

Various powers I'm curious about the prices/permissibility of: cognitive speed-up (say 2x, for a reference point)? Ability to run multiple threads of attention (say 2)? Remote viewing? Shapeshifting (into members of the same species? into any animal?) Empathy (read-only? read/write?) Magically enhanced attractiveness? Illusions? Long-range low-detail mental communication? Not needing sleep? Expanded visual range (infrared/ultraviolet)? Speaking all languages? Precognition? Lie detection? Enhanced (say Olympic-level) physical abilities? Immortality (in the sense of not aging)? Venomous fangs? Breathing underwater? Elspeth-style "believe what I say"? (Including when saying false things?) Allirea-style unnoticeability? Minor telekinesis (say, nothing weighing more than half a pound)? Aura of happiness?

[Adelene]

This setting is great and I totally want to build a culture in it.

:D

Miscellaneous questions! Feel free not to answer all/heavily use "not sure" as an answer, of course. :)

The answer for a lot of these is actually 'it varies by culture'! One of the effects of this magic system is cultural insularity, since moving to a different culture as an adult is a major and permanent hassle. You also don't get big areas all considering themselves part of the same group; there has to be enough coordination to keep everyone on the same cultural suite over time for that to work.

What sort of point cost is typical for a culture's "standard" power suite? Is it like "100, you only get something extra if you're lucky enough to have room, and some people can't even afford all of it?" Or "75, you have room for a couple of custom things but that's it?" Or "50, it's a big chunk of your points but there's still lots of room for customization"?

About 30-50 for cultural standards and another 25-50 for whatever career you want, with more traditional cultures being at the upper end of that range for the cultural thing; the average for the cultural standards is about 35.

Does the "further from age 15" thing tend to cause 15 to be the standard age of adulthood? I'd imagine it might. Or I could imagine, say, girls in patriarchal cultures getting married off at 13 so their husband would have a chance to tell them to pick powers convenient to his job/lifestyle.

15 year olds aren't usually considered adults, quite. I'm expecting to write this at about a 1500s-1600s time period, so apprenticeships are a thing and a 15-year-old would be a couple years into one, enough to have a reasonably solid idea of what the advantages and disadvantages of particular power upgrades would be for their career but not independent yet. (This also varies by culture, if you want to write something different there's plenty of room to.)

On which note: how much influence do other people tend to have on what powers someone picks, outside of the standard suite? Do most people discuss it extensively with parents/elders/friends/mentors/community leaders? Or is it something deeply personal?

This varies very heavily by culture, but it's almost never considered so personal that you couldn't discuss it with at least your family or close advisors, and in most cultures it's not uncommon to discuss it with friends and such too.

Might your parents/boss/government actually require you to pick certain powers?

There are some jobs that you have to have certain powers to get, and most jobs expect you to have useful powers even if they don't require specific ones. Parents/government requiring certain powers is considered abusive/dystopic; there are probably government programs in place to incentivize certain powers anyway, but nothing worse than that in most places. (There's also, like, if you skip the culturally required ones and then can't get a job because you can't function in society, they government isn't going to turn around and give you a disability stipend, but that isn't generally counted as 'the government requires you to get those powers', it's counted as 'don't be a dumbass'.)

It's also worth noting that kids getting powers is not impossible but it is very obviously a bad idea; the farther away you are from 15 the more expensive it is to get a power. (It's also not necessarily possible for a kid to get a particular power; babies start out with negligible potential and grow into it over time.)

Are there powers that aren't standard for everyone, but correspond to a standard role in the community? A truth-detection power that you pick up if you're going to be the arbiter, for instance, or an empathy power for a counselor?

Yep, that's absolutely a thing.

How weird is it to voluntarily forgo part of the standard power suite for your culture in order to make room for something else you want? Is that a "well, you're a bit quirky" or "what the HECK is wrong with YOU? kids, stay away from them" matter?

Varies by culture but it's not a huge deal except in very conservative ones, if you're passing up something fairly minor; between 'quirky' and 'huh, how are you making that work?'

What kind of power level in effects could you get from spending all your points on a single power? I could imagine people doing that on a power that's beneficial for the community; it would leave them effectively-profoundly-disabled, but then presumably the community would take care of them in return. You could have them filling a sort of priest-like role, where they're honored and cared for in return for their sacrifice.

That more or less can't happen, given how new powers are discovered; the most expensive powers that people know about cost about 50-60 potential and would be something like fast fully-general shapeshifting with biogenesis a la Sparkles and the potential for taking on both larger and smaller forms. Someone taking on a specific large suite of powers at the expense of everything else could work that way, though, certainly.

I assume that due to how the rituals work, it's impractical to get powers which target a particular other person? (e.g. "always know the direction to my twin," "telepathic bond with my spouse")

Somewhere between impractical and impossible, yep. You could get general versions of those - 'know the direction to the person I'm thinking of', 'be able to send thoughts to the person I'm thinking of, at any distance', that kind of thing.

Could you get, say, a "be prettier" ritual, or would that not work (or turn anyone who used it into the same pretty person)? It seems like it might work, given that sex swap does, especially if it takes the form of "increase facial symmetry/smooth out skin blemishes/etc" (like diamond vampires).

'Look this specific way' is potentially a thing, but even if it exists it's not at all commonly used (unless you want to write a really weird culture, I guess). 'Increase facial symmetry/smooth out blemishes/etc' is possible but would be risky to experiment for; if it does exist there's a really distressing string of stories involved, but I think it exists anyway.

Various powers I'm curious about the prices/permissibility of:

• Cognitive speed-up (say 2x, for a reference point)?
  8
• Ability to run multiple threads of attention (say 2)?
  15
• Remote viewing?
  varies based on restrictions, 10-20
• Shapeshifting
  • into members of the same species?
    30
  • into any animal?
    50
• Empathy
  • read-only? (also send-only)
    depends on range and detail; 2-20
  • read/write?
    depends on range and detail; 5-30
• Magically enhanced attractiveness?
  there are probably a bunch of versions of this even though that's awful. 2-15.
• Illusions?
  varies based on available range, detail, length of time the illusions stick around, whether they can be dismissed prior to that, etc. 3-50. (A cheap lightwriting power is one of the cultural standard ones for the Dusk I'm working on and costs 5, the less expensive ones can't do even that much resolution.)
• Long-range low-detail mental communication?
  18-20
• Not needing sleep?
  Not sure this is possible but if it is it's midrangey, 20ish.
• Expanded visual range (infrared/ultraviolet)?
  4-6
• Speaking all languages?
  35-40; nonverbal telepathy or one-way translation is much cheaper.
• Precognition?
  n/a, though I may budge on this if someone comes up with a good story. it'll be expensive, though.
• Lie detection?
  16
• Enhanced (say Olympic-level) physical abilities?
  fully general? 40ish. You can get specific enhanced abilities for less than that, though, the Dusk I'm working on has either enhanced jumping or enhanced climbing as a cultural standard at 5.
• Immortality (in the sense of not aging)?
  n/a I think, or it might just not have been discovered; cost will depend on plot needs if it comes up but 'surprisingly cheap, 20ish' feels correct as a baseline.
• Venomous fangs?
  ~10 for physical changes on this scale, e.g. a tail, animal ears, claws.
• Breathing underwater?
  15
• "believe what I say"?
  • Elspeth-style
    n/a
  • (Including when saying false things?)
    18 and probably gets you run out of town.
• Allirea-style unnoticeability?
  30ish but comes with a much nicer on/off switch.
• Minor telekinesis (say, nothing weighing more than half a pound)?
  varies based on range, fine control, etc; 2-25. (The Dusk picks up one that's really excellent at fine control, to use in glassblowing, for 20; a midrange version at ~12 is part of the standard glassblowing suite and is still suitable for handling fluids and powders and stuff.)
• Aura of happiness?
  depends on strength, range, and controlability; 5-25.

Also, moar chatlog:

(12/3/2016 11:33:48 PM) ***Adelene pokes at new setting a bit, vaguely.
(12/3/2016 11:41:28 PM) Adelene: I should figure out what happens to Dusks in it.
(12/3/2016 11:41:56 PM) Adelene: I think at least in the timeframe I'm looking at it's pretty decent for them.
(12/3/2016 11:42:36 PM) Ezra: It might depend on culture
(12/3/2016 11:42:42 PM) Adelene: or, like - compared to modern Earths it is.
(12/3/2016 11:42:52 PM) Adelene: depends on culture but not as much?
(12/3/2016 11:43:24 PM) Adelene: their attractors suggest that giving them this kind of free choice of magic should work out pretty well for them.
(12/3/2016 11:43:43 PM) Ezra: Modern Earths are a bad place for Dusks
(12/3/2016 11:43:53 PM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/3/2016 11:43:59 PM) Adelene: this isn't a that, though.
(12/3/2016 11:44:16 PM) Adelene: it's an Earth geographically but culturally only sort of reminiscent.
(12/3/2016 11:44:29 PM) Adelene: and not modern, either
(12/3/2016 11:44:41 PM) Ezra: With this they can pick a magic that suits them?
(12/3/2016 11:44:58 PM) Adelene: I'm thinking like 1500s, 1600s - the americas have been discovered but the united states isn't a thing (and also won't be)
(12/3/2016 11:45:55 PM) Adelene: They can pick a powerset they like, yeah; they're constrained by the requirements of whatever culture they're in but they aren't inclined to let that slow them down much.
(12/3/2016 11:46:41 PM) Adelene: And if they need to leave their home culture to find a better fit, they've definitely picked that up and started working on it by fifteen, so even that doesn't constrain their power choice all that much.
(12/3/2016 11:47:36 PM) Adelene: hm
(12/3/2016 11:47:47 PM) Adelene: dunno why but I think this Dusk instance might be a boy one.
(12/3/2016 11:47:52 PM) Ezra: Normally moving like that is hard.
(12/3/2016 11:48:06 PM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/3/2016 11:48:19 PM) Adelene: Dusks have a super strong attractor for that, though.
(12/3/2016 11:48:27 PM) Ezra: But if you've planned ahead before you take most of your powers it could work
(12/3/2016 11:48:35 PM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/3/2016 11:50:35 PM) Adelene: I think what likely happens is that by fourteen-fifteen he's worked out that he definitely wants to move and has a few candidates in mind, and is holding off on picking cultural-fit powers but gets some personal-choice ones and maybe one or two minor cultural-fit powers that he likes the idea of
(12/3/2016 11:51:17 PM) Adelene: And then by like seventeen he has it narrowed down, picks up the rest of the powers for whatever culture, and goes.
(12/3/2016 11:52:00 PM) Ezra: Makes sense
(12/3/2016 11:52:16 PM) Adelene: Doing it that way costs maybe five points' worth of potential, not a huge deal.
(12/3/2016 11:53:21 PM) Adelene: hmmmmm
(12/3/2016 11:54:21 PM) Adelene: 'Talking to animals' is a power you can get, but I'm not sure there's a fully general form, you might just be able to get 'talking to birds' or 'talking to horses' or 'talking to dogs' or things like that.
(12/3/2016 11:54:31 PM) Adelene: And I think he takes an experimental variant.
(12/3/2016 11:57:46 PM) Adelene: ...possibly actually two experimental variants, I would like to show off how that works.
(12/3/2016 11:58:42 PM) Adelene: (Dusks being Dusks this is something he carefully budgeted for and would have stopped trying after the second, but he /really/ wanted it.)
(12/3/2016 11:59:11 PM) Ezra: :)
(12/3/2016 11:59:58 PM) Adelene: Also by 'talking to' I mean 'actually not that, but you can understand them as if they're talking to you'.
(12/3/2016 11:59:59 PM) Ezra: Does a culture around have an animals power standard, like an equestrian society talking to horses?
(12/4/2016 12:00:17 AM) Adelene: There are cultures that do that but neither his original nor his new one is one of them.
(12/4/2016 12:00:26 AM) Ezra: Tyelcormo style or different?
(12/4/2016 12:00:38 AM) Ezra: For level of communication
(12/4/2016 12:00:52 AM) Adelene: Basically Tyelcormo style. The animals are still animals, this doesn't make them smart.
(12/4/2016 12:01:07 AM) Adelene: But it does help a ton at letting you communicate with them on their level.
(12/4/2016 12:01:39 AM) Ezra: Also is understanding them a separate power from a power to tell them things easier than our humans do?
(12/4/2016 12:02:18 AM) Adelene: Understanding them is a separate power (and the one I'm talking about) and relatively cheap; being able to tell them things and have them understand you would be really expensive.
(12/4/2016 12:02:34 AM) Ezra: Understanding them goes a long way towards that just on not having to guess how much of what you're trying to communicate they're getting.
(12/4/2016 12:02:39 AM) Adelene: Yup.
(12/4/2016 12:03:10 AM) Adelene: I think the first one he gets is like arthropods or something, though, interesting but not useful.
(12/4/2016 12:03:50 AM) Ezra: I'm getting that the system's aesthetic doesn't like powers that do "two things" and "send and receive communications" is two things.
(12/4/2016 12:03:55 AM) Adelene: mmhmm
(12/4/2016 12:04:21 AM) Adelene: If you want two things you can buy yourself those two things, but they don't come bundled.
(12/4/2016 12:04:58 AM) Teceler: what /does/ happen if you try to get something you don't have the -- capacity or mana or whatever it was -- left for?
(12/4/2016 12:05:12 AM) Adelene: Doesn't go.
(12/4/2016 12:05:25 AM) Teceler: but it fails cleanly, okay
(12/4/2016 12:05:30 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 12:05:30 AM) Ezra: And one might be available cheaper or more developed than the other, if more people have tried variants for it or people have gotten luckier.
(12/4/2016 12:05:47 AM) Adelene: *nodnod*, Ezra.
(12/4/2016 12:06:02 AM) Adelene: Some things there are a ton of variants of, but it varies a lot.
(12/4/2016 12:06:32 AM) Ezra: Trying for something too big doesn't, like, permanently eat up your remaining capacity, or kill you or knock you out or something, that's good.
(12/4/2016 12:06:43 AM) Adelene: Like, gender change stuff, there's a /ton/ of variants, people who want to do it in the first place are often willing to spend potential on experiments.
(12/4/2016 12:07:45 AM) Adelene: But, like, telepathy, less so, there are a few variants but pretty much once someone found a nice one that was it.
(12/4/2016 12:08:53 AM) Adelene: (I think trying to get something you don't have enough potential for might actually be uncomfortable, but not worse than that, it's definitely not dangerous in any way.)
(12/4/2016 12:09:33 AM) Ezra: Any way to tell where you are on the potential scale before you run out?
(12/4/2016 12:09:44 AM) Adelene: Yup, having a sense of that is a power you can get.
(12/4/2016 12:09:57 AM) Teceler: ...how expensive is that as a power
(12/4/2016 12:10:10 AM) Adelene: Not very.
(12/4/2016 12:10:25 AM) Ezra: A self power, or a check anyone power, or both exist or ?
(12/4/2016 12:10:56 AM) Adelene: Check anyone. It's the sort of thing you'd expect a guidance counselor equivalent type person to have.
(12/4/2016 12:11:04 AM) Teceler: oh, cool
(12/4/2016 12:11:08 AM) Adelene: *nodnod*
(12/4/2016 12:13:12 AM) Ezra: Is there a version to, say, check how much of that someone's already spent?
(12/4/2016 12:13:30 AM) Adelene: Probably exists but I'm not sure why anyone would spend potential on it.
(12/4/2016 12:14:01 AM) Adelene: Might be lost to time, too.
(12/4/2016 12:14:22 AM) Adelene: (Or never found in the first place but that seems less likely.)
(12/4/2016 12:16:01 AM) Ezra: Well, it's one way to tell how surprising to expect someone's capabilities to be, if you're worried about the capabilities of purple around you.
(12/4/2016 12:16:09 AM) Teceler: pf
(12/4/2016 12:16:51 AM) Adelene: Not really? That thing where peoples' potential declines after age 15 means most people use up most/all of their potential by age 18.
(12/4/2016 12:17:12 AM) Ezra: People
(12/4/2016 12:17:28 AM) Adelene: Like, it's not just that you have less potential to spend, it's that powers start costing more to get, too.
(12/4/2016 12:17:43 AM) Ezra: Hm, okay. That makes sense then.
(12/4/2016 12:17:57 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 12:18:15 AM) Adelene: If you're really not sure it does make sense to wait, but waiting objectively costs you something.
(12/4/2016 12:20:26 AM) Ezra: So you've got a sense of a couple of this Dusk's elective powers.
(12/4/2016 12:20:33 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 12:20:50 AM) Adelene: understanding arthropods and understanding cats, he ends up with a Star.
(12/4/2016 12:21:30 AM) Adelene: and, hm
(12/4/2016 12:21:58 AM) Adelene: if voluntary deafness was a thing he'd get it but I don't think it is, or at least it's not in the libraries he has access to.
(12/4/2016 12:22:39 AM) Ezra: (I'm idly imagining him going and talking to the aranea males.)
(12/4/2016 12:22:46 AM) Teceler: pf
(12/4/2016 12:23:05 AM) Teceler: yeah that is a context where that power would actually be useful
(12/4/2016 12:23:14 AM) Adelene: heh
(12/4/2016 12:24:08 AM) Adelene: hmmmmm
(12/4/2016 12:24:30 AM) Adelene: I'm getting that he has some kind of minor illusions power? I think that's a cultural one but from the feel of it it may be a home-culture one.
(12/4/2016 12:24:52 AM) Adelene: sort of draw-in-the-air type power.
(12/4/2016 12:25:42 AM) Ezra: Interesting
(12/4/2016 12:26:32 AM) Ezra: I'm comparing the glass-conjuring person from the MWF and their conjuration-enhanced language
(12/4/2016 12:26:52 AM) Adelene: *nodnod* he'd be able to interact at least passably with that, yep.
(12/4/2016 12:27:56 AM) Adelene: if there was a textural element to it he probably won't be able to do that, or at least not like natively, he can probably do enough different textures that they could come up with a straightforward transliteration type thing.
(12/4/2016 12:28:16 AM) Ezra: *nod*
(12/4/2016 12:28:50 AM) Adelene: also some kind of physical enhancement? might be the ability to jump really well, not sure.
(12/4/2016 12:29:09 AM) Ezra: About how much of his capacity is that so far?
(12/4/2016 12:30:21 AM) Adelene: the understanding animal ones are 8 each, illusions is like 5 or 6, jumping...hmm... I'm not sure it actually /is/ jumping, it might be climbing, it's definitely some kind of vertical movement though, 4-5...
(12/4/2016 12:30:28 AM) sonatagreen: Dusk is the same template as Rescue?
(12/4/2016 12:30:32 AM) Teceler: yes
(12/4/2016 12:30:43 AM) Adelene: so like 26
(12/4/2016 12:31:28 AM) Adelene: and then getting powers late eats 5, call it 31, of hm hm 102 potential?
(12/4/2016 12:32:21 AM) Ezra: Almost a third. Still plenty left for some more of cultural and maybe personal powers.
(12/4/2016 12:32:25 AM) Adelene: yup
(12/4/2016 12:32:39 AM) Adelene: he definitely gets something for communication, possibly multiple somethings.
(12/4/2016 12:33:06 AM) Adelene: Dusks strongly prefer not to have to talk, even when they can.
(12/4/2016 12:33:20 AM) ***Teceler sentiments-of-hugs him
(12/4/2016 12:33:31 AM) Adelene: *hugs*
(12/4/2016 12:33:47 AM) Ezra: Do these powers ever do side effects? Like a see magnetism power that replaces your regular vision while you use it?
(12/4/2016 12:34:09 AM) Adelene: like that, yeah, but only as a direct result of how the power works, not as a secondary thing.
(12/4/2016 12:34:35 AM) Ezra: Then a power to replace hearing might do for selective deafness.
(12/4/2016 12:34:39 AM) Adelene: and it'd more likely be an overlay or a whole separate sense.
(12/4/2016 12:35:50 AM) Adelene: the only way you'd get a power that incidentally made you unable to hear regular sounds would be if it was making its own sounds, which is pretty useless for his 'sound is obnoxious and headache-inducing' use case.
(12/4/2016 12:35:59 AM) Teceler: ouch, yeah
(12/4/2016 12:36:18 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 12:36:36 AM) Adelene: it's not /too/ bad? but a deafness power would be super cheap, he'd totally take it if he could.
(12/4/2016 12:37:28 AM) Ezra: Rescue's superpower doesn't make silence, does it? It just lets you pay attention to what you care about and ignore what you don't?
(12/4/2016 12:37:37 AM) Adelene: mhmm
(12/4/2016 12:37:57 AM) Adelene: most of her power is actually super /auditory processing/, she's just never heard of the concept.
(12/4/2016 12:38:23 AM) Teceler: but it also goes and throws a lot more noise at her
(12/4/2016 12:38:28 AM) Adelene: yup
(12/4/2016 12:38:44 AM) Adelene: her processing is just /that much better/ that overall she's coming out ahead there.
(12/4/2016 12:38:50 AM) Teceler: ...is she a double-trigger? I could see it working out that way
(12/4/2016 12:38:58 AM) Adelene: nope
(12/4/2016 12:38:58 AM) Ezra: Ooh
(12/4/2016 12:39:14 AM) Adelene: you can get multiple powers in one trigger in Worm
(12/4/2016 12:39:24 AM) Teceler: yeah, I know
(12/4/2016 12:39:35 AM) Ezra: Yeah, but double-trigger powers are usually a better personal for
(12/4/2016 12:39:39 AM) Ezra: Fit
(12/4/2016 12:39:42 AM) Teceler: just seems like the kind of power that might go and give you a double-trigger
(12/4/2016 12:40:05 AM) Adelene: *shrug*
(12/4/2016 12:40:09 AM) Ezra: One for the base, one to tweak it to you
(12/4/2016 12:40:21 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 12:40:31 AM) Adelene: I'm not even sure what she'd get if she double trigered
(12/4/2016 12:40:37 AM) Ezra: Did we ever hear what a single-trigger version of Taylor's might have done?
(12/4/2016 12:40:38 AM) Adelene: it seems very unlikely to even come up
(12/4/2016 12:40:49 AM) Teceler: depends on the circumstances of the second trigger, I think, too
(12/4/2016 12:40:54 AM) Adelene: *nod(
(12/4/2016 12:41:07 AM) Adelene: There's also the thing where she only lives to her early 30s, so.
(12/4/2016 12:41:22 AM) Teceler: Ezra, I think sensing and weak control of bugs without the massive multitasking and control thing and processing for that
(12/4/2016 12:41:35 AM) Teceler: based on how she describes it happening and the bud from her shard
(12/4/2016 12:41:58 AM) Ezra: Bud?
(12/4/2016 12:42:08 AM) Teceler: the kid with control of birds?
(12/4/2016 12:42:22 AM) Ezra: I don't remember that at all
(12/4/2016 12:42:29 AM) Teceler: it was a very minor plot point
(12/4/2016 12:42:52 AM) Teceler: except for the relevant to Tattletale working to break through the block on remembering the trigger vision
(12/4/2016 12:43:25 AM) Ezra: A deafness power sounds like one that somebody might not have written down even if they got it, and if you wanted to try for it yourself it's not obvious to me what you'd start with.
(12/4/2016 12:43:40 AM) Adelene: mmhmm
(12/4/2016 12:44:13 AM) Adelene: Also, it's probably written down /someplace/, but the lack of cultural cross-whatevers works against them.
(12/4/2016 12:47:35 AM) Adelene: Also a deafness power would be risky to try for, some powers are always-on.
(12/4/2016 12:48:02 AM) Ezra: Worrisome.
(12/4/2016 12:48:10 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 12:48:11 AM) Teceler: ...yeah I could see that
(12/4/2016 12:48:18 AM) Teceler: being an issue
(12/4/2016 12:48:38 AM) Adelene: It's definitely a factor in which powers have lots of variants and which don't.
(12/4/2016 12:49:18 AM) Ezra: Maybe better leave that one for once you've got the interspecies synergy engine going
(12/4/2016 12:49:24 AM) Teceler: XD yes
(12/4/2016 12:49:35 AM) Adelene: yes ^^
(12/4/2016 12:50:11 AM) Ezra: Wanna say anything about what powers exist / are common as spells?
(12/4/2016 12:50:54 AM) Adelene: varies by culture but work-related things are common, interpersonal things are common-ish, physical and mental enhancements are common
(12/4/2016 12:51:59 AM) Adelene: novelty abilities are pretty common; on top of the thing where it's teenagers making the choices there's also, like, once you've gotten all the important stuff you want you might have a little bit of potential left and nothing actually useful to spend it on.
(12/4/2016 12:53:01 AM) Adelene: and then some of those become cultural standards, I think the lightwriting illusion one started that way.
(12/4/2016 12:53:36 AM) Ezra: And you might as well use it, or you'll lose it. *nod*
(12/4/2016 12:53:49 AM) Ezra: Sorry, "as spells" meaning for the temporary casters?
(12/4/2016 12:54:01 AM) Adelene: oh
(12/4/2016 12:54:37 AM) Adelene: they actually use the same rituals as the main species, but they have discovered a different set, yes
(12/4/2016 12:54:43 AM) Adelene: I haven't thought about what they know
(12/4/2016 12:54:48 AM) Adelene: metamagic, though.
(12/4/2016 12:55:00 AM) Adelene: insofar as this system does it, which isn't much, but.
(12/4/2016 12:56:19 AM) Ezra: There isn't really much to see with a "detect magic", right?
(12/4/2016 12:56:33 AM) Adelene: not sure. They do have 'detect mana' though.
(12/4/2016 12:57:02 AM) Ezra: Ah yeah, that'd be very useful
(12/4/2016 12:57:15 AM) Adelene: (you can find it without that, but not visually, I think you have to walk into it.)
(12/4/2016 12:58:11 AM) Adelene: anyway, more Dusk thoughts
(12/4/2016 12:58:17 AM) Adelene: this one picks up glassblowing? okay
(12/4/2016 12:58:25 AM) Ezra: Dusk!
(12/4/2016 12:58:26 AM) Adelene: and they have a couple powers relating to that
(12/4/2016 12:58:26 AM) Teceler: huh
(12/4/2016 12:58:29 AM) Teceler: why?
(12/4/2016 12:59:26 AM) Adelene: Dusks tend to be pretty tech-y; 1500s-1600s doesn't cater to that much at all but glassblowing is the kind of technically challenging skill that'd appeal to them within the relevant constraints.
(12/4/2016 1:01:43 AM) Adelene: *considers* I think they have a temperature detection power, and maybe a temperature adjusting one if there's room for it, and fine-control teekay, and maybe something for detecting, like, stress in objects?
(12/4/2016 1:04:35 AM) Ezra: Nice
(12/4/2016 1:04:53 AM) Teceler: not heat-resistance?
(12/4/2016 1:05:07 AM) Adelene: *nod* pretty standard for glassblowing; I think they look for a nicer teekay but don't find anything that's cost-effective for what they want to do
(12/4/2016 1:05:28 AM) Adelene: heat resistance maybe, yeah. the teekay obviates that a bit, though, less need to get so close to the hot stuff.
(12/4/2016 1:06:06 AM) Ezra: Do any powers help with, like, tinting the glass?
(12/4/2016 1:06:31 AM) Adelene: the teekay does! glass is tinted with additives, the teekay lets him control that very finely.
(12/4/2016 1:06:57 AM) Ezra: Very good.
(12/4/2016 1:07:13 AM) Adelene: *nodnod*
(12/4/2016 1:07:31 AM) Ezra: Do any powers let you do things with glass that we muggles cannot achieve with all our technology? I imagine fine telekinesis goes a good way there
(12/4/2016 1:07:50 AM) Adelene: probably.
(12/4/2016 1:08:12 AM) Ezra: You mentioned you can't make it levitate permanently
(12/4/2016 1:08:43 AM) Adelene: someone /eventually/ develops chemistry sensing powers that presumably do some amazing stuff, but as of Dusk's time that hasn't happened yet.
(12/4/2016 1:09:21 AM) Adelene: permanent magical effects on objects aren't a thing in this system
(12/4/2016 1:09:24 AM) Ezra: But you might be able to make, like, evacuated spheres that we can't with similar tech level.
(12/4/2016 1:10:18 AM) Adelene: evacuated spheres: yeah, probably, google isn't super clear on what that is at first glance.
(12/4/2016 1:10:34 AM) Ezra: Just vacuum in a sphere
(12/4/2016 1:11:11 AM) Adelene: assuming you don't need magic to make a strong enough sphere, yeah. by telporting the air out if nothing else.
(12/4/2016 1:14:07 AM) Ezra: Glass is traditional for vacuum tubes
(12/4/2016 1:15:05 AM) Adelene: *nod* that stops sounding like 'things with glass that we muggles cannot achieve with all our technology' though.
(12/4/2016 1:15:28 AM) Ezra: Well I don't think we can get the air out without leaving a hole
(12/4/2016 1:15:38 AM) Ezra: To pump through
(12/4/2016 1:15:43 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 1:19:37 AM) Ezra: Well, glass powers.
(12/4/2016 1:23:05 AM) Ezra: Do you have a sense of how far those glass powers push his total?
(12/4/2016 1:23:28 AM) Ezra: (Reasonable to call the glass powers professional as opposed to personal or cultural?)
(12/4/2016 1:24:41 AM) Adelene: the glass powers are definitely professional, they're pretty much the standard suite for glassblowers - there may be one or two other standardish things but it's basically this.
(12/4/2016 1:25:09 AM) Adelene: I think he gets a slightly fancier than usual teekay, though.
(12/4/2016 1:25:59 AM) Ezra: So it's very hard to shift careers later in life here, or even to decide at like 21 as is common in some US cultures
(12/4/2016 1:27:07 AM) Ezra: You'd better know by 16 what your Plan A is and be prepared for any plan past C or so to suck?
(12/4/2016 1:27:33 AM) Adelene: temp detection is cheap, 2-3; temp adjusting would be pretty expensive, 18-20, teekay is expensive 'cause he gets the fancy one, 18-20 there (the usual one is 12-13), stress detection is moderate, 7-8. Heat resistance comes in a variety of things and he'll likely get a minor one, 5-6, *maths*
(12/4/2016 1:28:47 AM) Adelene: 34 for the suite plus another 19 if he wants the temperature adjusting.
(12/4/2016 1:28:55 AM) Adelene: which I think he does.
(12/4/2016 1:29:14 AM) Adelene: so that's 84/102 spent.
(12/4/2016 1:29:35 AM) Adelene: (Yes, Ezra.)
(12/4/2016 1:29:49 AM) Adelene: there's also, like
(12/4/2016 1:29:55 AM) Adelene: a lot of powers are repurposable.
(12/4/2016 1:29:59 AM) Ezra: Wow, that's almost half on a professional suite. That plus culture takes up a lot.
(12/4/2016 1:30:10 AM) Adelene: *nodnod*
(12/4/2016 1:30:17 AM) Adelene: I mean, he's getting upgrades there
(12/4/2016 1:30:46 AM) Adelene: and the teekay is very reurposable, if he wants to switch careers it won't be too hard to find something else where that's useful.
(12/4/2016 1:32:14 AM) Ezra: You can fit into a number of other careers but not arbitrary choice and not as well as somebody who started there.
(12/4/2016 1:32:22 AM) Adelene: yup
(12/4/2016 1:32:45 AM) Adelene: there's also less... cogishness, though?
(12/4/2016 1:33:30 AM) Adelene: like, there are probably plenty of workshops that don't need everybody to have fancy fine-control teekay but could totally use one guy who did.
(12/4/2016 1:34:15 AM) Adelene: that's part of why the temperature control isn't quite part of the standard suite; you can get a bunch of glassworkers using one person's controled kilns.
(12/4/2016 1:34:58 AM) Adelene: Dusk likes to be able to work late, though, without having to rely on someone else being there to help or put up with subpar conditions.
(12/4/2016 1:37:22 AM) Ezra: I'm still nqs how that'll work out when somebody puts strong economic pressure on it, but I can buy that it works out for now.
(12/4/2016 1:37:38 AM) Adelene: I'm sure it'll change with time, yeah.
(12/4/2016 1:40:33 AM) Ezra: Centrally planned economies are gonna have so much to say about what your powers must be.
(12/4/2016 1:40:51 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 1:41:33 AM) Adelene: It's not technically possible to force someone to get or not get a certain power, but incentives are definitely a relevant thing.
(12/4/2016 1:42:00 AM) Adelene: (or, well. it's possible to stop someone from getting a power by limiting their knowledge, that's a thing.)
(12/4/2016 1:42:22 AM) Teceler: if they don't care enough to take the risks inherent in experimenting
(12/4/2016 1:42:34 AM) Adelene: they still need a starting point, though
(12/4/2016 1:42:39 AM) Teceler: true
(12/4/2016 1:43:08 AM) Teceler: can this system do informational powers other than 'direction of this arbitarily chosen point', incidentally?
(12/4/2016 1:43:21 AM) Ezra: You could limit knowledge and then they'd just have what they get officially plus whatever they get from shadier channels and whatever they hack off those.
(12/4/2016 1:43:39 AM) Adelene: ezra: yup
(12/4/2016 1:43:50 AM) Ezra: You can also definitely incentives.
(12/4/2016 1:43:56 AM) Adelene: that'd be a really cool direction to go in for Jeans & Zaris actually.
(12/4/2016 1:44:03 AM) Adelene: Tec: yes
(12/4/2016 1:44:19 AM) Adelene: but it's mostly pretty, like, generic?
(12/4/2016 1:44:33 AM) Adelene: the understanding-animals powers are that sort of thing
(12/4/2016 1:44:51 AM) Adelene: and the one where you can know how much potential someone has left
(12/4/2016 1:44:59 AM) Ezra: Jean and Zari's organization of black market powers?
(12/4/2016 1:45:03 AM) Adelene: mmhmm
(12/4/2016 1:45:55 AM) Ezra: Is this a good time to ask about other powers being possible?
(12/4/2016 1:47:19 AM) Adelene: I'm trying to answer Moriwen's post on the thread actually ^^;
(12/4/2016 1:51:38 AM) sonatagreen: How much careful do you need to avoid the problem of "I tried a variant ritual and it worked great, but now I can't remember exactly what I did"? Or, "I tried to do the ritual like you said, but I must have messed it up somehow because I got a variant, but I don't know what I did wrong, I'm super positive I followed all the instructions exactly"?
(12/4/2016 1:51:51 AM) sonatagreen: That is, to what extent are rituals analog vs. digital?
(12/4/2016 1:53:35 AM) Adelene: That can happen. I haven't worked out just how complicated the rituals need to be, which seems like it'd be a major factor in how common, but I do think you can practice the possible-to-mess-up part ahead of time without triggering it if you're worried about that.
(12/4/2016 1:54:16 AM) sonatagreen: like, if it's analog then _everyone_ will get very slight variants
(12/4/2016 1:55:25 AM) Adelene: ah, no
(12/4/2016 1:55:43 AM) sonatagreen: but if there's some quantum of ritual-change, like pressing different keys on a keyboard, then it's possible to be Actually Exactly Correct
(12/4/2016 1:56:16 AM) sonatagreen: by having your microerrors be smaller than the Threshold of This Counts As A Different Ritual Now
(12/4/2016 1:56:53 AM) Adelene: yeah, that
(12/4/2016 1:57:54 AM) Adelene: it's, like
(12/4/2016 1:57:58 AM) sonatagreen: so it's not like one person gets a 1.4532 meter range and someone else gets a 1.4531 meter range, if you don't mess up then it's Actually The Same.
(12/4/2016 1:58:59 AM) Adelene: the ritual is going on 'the concept of a green ball going horizontally counterclockwise around a red ball'; you evoke that by visualizing it, but it's the concept that matters, not the exact visualization.
(12/4/2016 1:59:47 AM) sonatagreen: hum. okay.
(12/4/2016 2:00:02 AM) Adelene: you could mess it up by forgetting which way was counterclockwise, but not by imagining the wrong shade of green.
(12/4/2016 2:01:46 AM) sonatagreen: or by imagining rubber vs. wooden balls, or paying too much attention to the imagined material, or by associating different examples-of-green-things with the concept of green, or by coming from a culture where there's only one basic color word for green and blue (compare: blue/light-blue vs. red/pink)
(12/4/2016 2:02:09 AM) Adelene: *nodnod* some rituals don't work for people from some cultures, yes.
(12/4/2016 2:02:43 AM) Adelene: but it does have to be a very basic conceptual difference like that.
(12/4/2016 2:02:47 AM) sonatagreen: so the last one with the color words could mess it up but the others couldn't?
(12/4/2016 2:02:51 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 2:03:09 AM) sonatagreen: Neat.
(12/4/2016 2:03:45 AM) Adelene: rubber vs. wooden might matter in some cases - specifying something like that where it isn't usually is the type of thing that would count as an experiment - but if the instructions don't say, it doesn't matter.
(12/4/2016 2:04:17 AM) sonatagreen: Now I'm imagining some cultures deliberately including local-culture-specific concepts, in order to prevent Outsiders from Stealing Our Magic.
(12/4/2016 2:04:20 AM) Adelene: (paying too much attention would be a problem.)
(12/4/2016 2:04:32 AM) Adelene: that might be a thing, yep
(12/4/2016 2:04:39 AM) Teceler: pf
(12/4/2016 2:04:46 AM) Ezra: Other powers I'm idly curious about, for your list: time sense, past-viewing, precog, resurrection, reading in the dark, vision in the dark, reading books with a touch. Some of these are likelier than others.
(12/4/2016 2:07:01 AM) Adelene: time sense like just having a watch without the watch is a thing and pretty cheap; past viewing yes but kinda spendy; precog I think no but I might change my mind particularly if someone comes up with a good story that needs it; resurrection is conceptually possible but nobody's gotten it yet; reading in the dark yes; seeing in the dark yes; reading books with a touch is conceptually possible but would be expensive and niche and nobody's bothered to experiment enough for it.
(12/4/2016 2:11:26 AM) sonatagreen: (Y combinator. Wabi-sabi. Schmaltz. Kathoey. Magnum opus. Ghazal.)
(12/4/2016 2:11:34 AM) Adelene: ??
(12/4/2016 2:11:45 AM) sonatagreen: (Examples of culturally-specific concepts.)
(12/4/2016 2:11:46 AM) Ezra: What is that a list of?
(12/4/2016 2:11:48 AM) Adelene: ah
(12/4/2016 2:11:50 AM) Ezra: Ah.
(12/4/2016 2:13:14 AM) Ezra: 84/102? So that's 18 left for any other cultural powers besides the movement and illusion ones?
(12/4/2016 2:14:17 AM) Adelene: yeah, and I don't remember if I worked the communication powers into that.
(12/4/2016 2:14:32 AM) Adelene: he may in fact not have gotten the temperature control one :P
(12/4/2016 2:15:03 AM) Ezra: That's 8 each for two animals, 10 for movement and illusion,
(12/4/2016 2:16:27 AM) Ezra: 34 for the glassblowing suite, 19 more if he manages temperature control,
(12/4/2016 2:17:01 AM) Ezra: I'm gonna write another 8 here so I can total visually,
(12/4/2016 2:17:44 AM) Ezra: That's 79 so I'm missing 5 somewhere
(12/4/2016 2:18:07 AM) Adelene: for waiting until he's older to get most of them.
(12/4/2016 2:19:49 AM) Ezra: That's right.
(12/4/2016 2:22:31 AM) Ezra: So that's 47 total for whatever he takes from culture A and culture B, including movement and illusion, and any further discretionary including temp control.
(12/4/2016 2:22:50 AM) Teceler: I will be reading more of these logs in the morning though
(12/4/2016 2:26:41 AM) Ezra: 47 sounds better for that than 28. He might not manage to squeeze that temperature control in.
(12/4/2016 2:27:16 AM) Adelene: yeah
(12/4/2016 2:29:41 AM) Adelene: hm
(12/4/2016 2:29:44 AM) Adelene: sanity check
(12/4/2016 2:30:39 AM) Adelene: something like Sparkles' fully general shapeshifting with biogenesis seems like it'd plausibly be the upper end of powers that've been discovered, and cost like 50 potential
(12/4/2016 2:30:42 AM) Adelene: y/n?
(12/4/2016 2:30:59 AM) Teceler: hm
(12/4/2016 2:31:01 AM) Ezra: That's pretty general...
(12/4/2016 2:31:26 AM) Adelene: Also I'm not sure Sparkles can do smaller forms but this should be able to.
(12/4/2016 2:31:30 AM) Ezra: Is it all one thing or a compound?
(12/4/2016 2:31:33 AM) Adelene: all one thing.
(12/4/2016 2:32:41 AM) Ezra: And it's about as big as the super deluxe glassblower suite
(12/4/2016 2:33:12 AM) Ezra: In cost
(12/4/2016 2:33:36 AM) Adelene: and roughly as useful, I think?
(12/4/2016 2:33:49 AM) Adelene: bearing in mind that the teekay has other applications.
(12/4/2016 2:34:02 AM) Ezra: Thinking about the secondary uses, yeah, I think I can see it.
(12/4/2016 2:34:03 AM) Adelene: and so does the temperature modification
(12/4/2016 2:34:18 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 2:36:33 AM) Ezra: Can you be, like, Alexandria? Eidetic memory and super cognition together with flight, strength, and indestructibility
(12/4/2016 2:36:48 AM) Ezra: Under say 100?
(12/4/2016 2:36:57 AM) Adelene: maybe
(12/4/2016 2:37:16 AM) Adelene: the indestructability seems like it'd be hard to sneak in under that limit.
(12/4/2016 2:37:30 AM) Adelene: under 120, though, probably.
(12/4/2016 2:37:46 AM) Ezra: How big is indestructibility?
(12/4/2016 2:39:10 AM) Adelene: really good indestructability seems like it'd be the way upper end, 40-50.
(12/4/2016 2:39:27 AM) Ezra: Alexandria at about 120 feels like a reasonable top of the scale to me, if that's about where you want things topping out.
(12/4/2016 2:39:40 AM) Adelene: *nod*
(12/4/2016 2:41:53 AM) Ezra: Somebody with her exact power set feels to me like a person who has no intention of staying under one culture's jurisdiction, and picks things that'll be generally useful flying around everywhere
(12/4/2016 2:42:10 AM) Ezra: Even if she doesn't meet the exact local expectations
(12/4/2016 2:42:53 AM) Ezra: Also, to be so conflict-specced in a lower-conflict world like this implies things.
(12/4/2016 2:43:11 AM) Adelene: *nodnod*
(12/4/2016 2:44:43 AM) Ezra: Did you say yet about what size range to expect culture packages to be in?
(12/4/2016 2:45:05 AM) Ezra: I can get a little from looking at where Dusk is
(12/4/2016 2:45:09 AM) Adelene: 35ish, with more traditional cultures having larger suites than that.
(12/4/2016 2:45:37 AM) Adelene: 30-50 generally but the average is 35.
(12/4/2016 2:46:09 AM) Ezra: And more experimental cultures pruning it down to that 35ish for more individual variety?
(12/4/2016 2:46:41 AM) Adelene: mmhmm
(12/4/2016 2:47:31 AM) Adelene: or even below that, there's a few out there that have it down below 20.
(12/4/2016 2:47:46 AM) Ezra: So Dusk can get potentially all of his destination culture here, but not much more from source.
(12/4/2016 2:47:56 AM) Adelene: mmhm
(12/4/2016 2:50:13 AM) Ezra: Did you say which cultures the movement and illusion powers are from?
(12/4/2016 2:50:47 AM) Adelene: the movement thing is from the new one, the illusion power is from the old one (and I think is the very first thing he picks up)
(12/4/2016 2:54:20 AM) Ezra: That makes sense

[Kappa]

How do infinite mana hack?

[Adelene]

Mana is only sort of a physical thing that exists; you can't pick it up and carry it. Instead, the secondary species has a spell that costs an amount of mana and produces a slightly smaller amount of mana. If they teach the ritual for that to a member of the primary species, they can get a power that instead just produces mana, at no cost beyond the initial one of potential.

They of course can't use it, the primary species doesn't interact with mana at all once it's made, but their secondary species friends can.

[Kappa]

Huh. And can this be bent back somehow to increase the spending cap of a member of the primary species?

[Ezra]

How weird is it to voluntarily forgo part of the standard power suite for your culture in order to make room for something else you want? Is that a "well, you're a bit quirky" or "what the HECK is wrong with YOU? kids, stay away from them" matter?

Varies by culture but it's not a huge deal except in very conservative ones, if you're passing up something fairly minor; between 'quirky' and 'huh, how are you making that work?'

I'm picturing people reacting like if you said you don't own a car, or a computer, or a phone. Does that seem about right?

Moriwen, did you see in the log, we talked about how a more controlling country could try to control which powers you get. They can't do much to stop you if you have the rituals, but they can censor knowledge of particular rituals, or even prohibit distributing rituals outside of official channels. Then we talked about if Jean and Zari ran an organization distributing black-market rituals!

[Adelene]

Huh. And can this be bent back somehow to increase the spending cap of a member of the primary species?

Increasing their potential, you mean? I hadn't thought about that but it seems like something that could maybe eventually be developed.

How weird is it to voluntarily forgo part of the standard power suite for your culture in order to make room for something else you want? Is that a "well, you're a bit quirky" or "what the HECK is wrong with YOU? kids, stay away from them" matter?

Varies by culture but it's not a huge deal except in very conservative ones, if you're passing up something fairly minor; between 'quirky' and 'huh, how are you making that work?'

I'm picturing people reacting like if you said you don't own a car, or a computer, or a phone. Does that seem about right?

Yeah, that seems about right. Or like you said you don't own a TV or microwave, for the less utility more novelty sorts of powers.

[Moriwen]

Oooh I am totally into the "dystopia of hidden rituals" idea.

More questions

---

How closely does this correspond to Earth? Is it reasonable for there to be a "France," roughly corresponding to our France, though more (like all societies here) more insulated/with different social structures? Or is that not a thing?

Could you have a weaker neighbor of the "believe what I say" power that's more or less a "suspension of disbelief" power? (Doesn't actually convince you, but inclines you to play along, makes it seem conceptually plausible, etc.) (I'm imagining this as a power actors/bards/storytellers might have.) (I am totally also imagining Unwise Experimentation leading to Jeandad having the proper believe-what-I-say power.)

How about an "emotional resonance" power: it's not strong enough for someone to individually control someone else's emotions, but if you get a big group of people with the power together, they can enhance each other's emotions (so, crowds of crying people for funerals, or festivals with everyone gathering around a bonfire and ratcheting positive emotions upward at each other)?

Other muttering about cultural ideas for limited-knowledge-dystopia-AU-France ("Francish"); please do give feedback on how well they fit! :)

Francish

---

I'm imagining a (quietly state-run) system of monasteries, such that the only way to find out the really good rituals (especially for a peasant) is to be dedicated as a child. The monks/nuns are divided into "lay" and "choir," with the children with highest potential and best-suited personalities being chosen to become choir brothers/sisters. Choir brothers and sisters spend their entire potential on super-useful power suites (chosen by their superiors, ofc), with the rituals having lots of religious significance as well as actual magic power. The lay brothers and sisters have much more like the standard power suite, and their job is to do the practical work of running the monasteries, and take care of the choir brothers and sisters, who of course lack lots of standard things. The special power suites for the choir religious are usually helpful to the community (e.g., various powerful healing stuff), and get regarded as gifts from God (not in that people are confused about how the magic works, just as a cultural thing). They'll also sometimes be used for ritual experimentation, since they can rely on having people to take care of them if it goes poorly. The monasteries curate libraries of rituals (and are probably the only non-noble people who can read); most of those rituals aren't open for public consumption, being reserved for the monks and nuns or for the nobles. Peasants getting ready to choose their powers consult with a monk or nun, who gives them advice about what to choose, and then teaches them the rituals they choose from those they're allowed to know.

Also: a Judaism-analogue (or actual AU!Judaism, depending on how close you want cultures to match to real-world cultures) seems like it would work really well with the cultural insularity that happens here. They're living within other cultures (because diaspora), but they're very culturally separate (and often live in physically separate ghettos). They have their own set of rituals, many of them focused on intellect/learning/mental things, passed down by memorization as part of bar/bat mitzvah preparation. (Francish has of course expelled them, as part of limiting popular knowledge of rituals, though some of them are ofc still secretly around.)

I'm picturing the aristocracy as running on super-hint-culture, with (read-only) empathy absolutely required to function socially: making anyone feel a negative emotion at any point is an immense social gaffe. (And of course you end up with an 'arms race,' with people getting better at controlling their emotional responses, and then needing better empathy powers, and powers to give false impressions of what your emotions are, and so on.) (No one's managed to figure out a ritual to control people's emotions; or if they have, they're keeping it under wraps.) This then really limits social mobility, because a noble can do without a good chunk of the standard power suite by having servants for them and make room for these social powers that way, but a peasant can't afford to spend half their potential on powers for delicate social maneuvering.

There's a ritual for cognitive speed-up that's closely guarded, and only people in the direct line to the throne are allowed to know about it (including its existence). This of course gives them a nice leg up in social maneuvering.

More powers, if you're up for evaluating possibility/price:

powers

---

A power whose only function is to identify if other people have that same power?
A healing touch (that cures a particular disease? a range of minor ailments? everything?)
A power to Create X (flour? bread? water? food in general?)
A power to hear things at a specific (arbitrary) point? (Which could then be used for public broadcasting, if pretty much everyone has that power, and you set up an announcer there.)
A power to need less sleep (say, 4 hrs instead of 8)?
A power for making plants grow better?
A power to kill at a touch (uh, presumably toggle-able so you don't kill everyone you touch)?
A dowsing power for finding water?

[MaggieoftheOwls]

So if you don't typically buy any powers until fifteenish, that sort of means that it has to be possible to navigate the culture and stuff without the standard power suite, at least to the level that a child does. This could have some interesting implications, like a higher level of expecting-to-do-things-for-children, and--not adulthood, exactly, but fifteen-or-whenever-you-buy-your-powers would probably be a huge autonomy milestone, suddenly being able to do for yourself all these things that previously you'd had to get other people to do for you.

Also I'm imagining at least one government that subsidizes poor people doing experimental versions of a bunch of different powers, so like, if your family is broke and you can't get a good apprenticeship your options are sort of to take practical powers and try to make your way in the world anyway, or alternately you could go live in the government dormitories and get a bunch of experimental and probably at least mostly useless powers and have incredibly limited ability to, like, function independently in society but you don't have to do that in order to survive.