Noumenal Girls

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Tamien
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Noumenal Girls

Post by Tamien »

I have been working on a Magical Girl setting inspired somewhat by Puella Magi Madoka Magica and somewhat by Mai Hime and somewhat by other things. I've worked out a couple different variants for how it might work, so here are my thoughts on one of them. This is about all I have worked out so far, of this version. (I have another version in which the Most Important Person plays a more cooperative role in the magic, but this version has fewer kinks to work out at this point, so I'm posting this one.) The terminology is nowhere near settled and I keep vacillating on what to call things, but for the sake of a unique subject line, I'm calling it Noumenal Girls, and calling things "noumenal" instead of "magical" or "astral" or "psychic" or "spirit", because the magic works kindof noumenally and it's a cool word and the other words are taken by other things. I'm open to suggestions for better terminology (in particular I need a better word for 'familiar').
Spoilers for Madoka and Mai Hime, which are very good shows and which you should watch instead of spoiling yourself on
The basic inspiration was that I really really like the aspect of the HiME system where your Most Important Person is your 'collateral' for having HiME powers, and they die if your Child is defeated, and the strength of your Child and your HiME powers are proportionate to the strength of your bond with your Most Important Person, plus I liked the parallels between Childs and Orphans. And I liked in Madoka how how you become a magical girl by choice (as opposed to happening to have a HiME mark), and how a magical girl is a soul gem, not a body, and if a magical girl's soul gem gets too tainted they become a witch, plus the way it's pretty much unavoidably tragic to become a magical girl for someone else's sake. So I wanted to take those parts of those shows' systems and rework them into my own system.
So the core part of the system is that becoming a noumenal girl requires that there is some other person whom you become a noumenal girl for. Becoming a noumenal girl causes you to acquire a noumenal companion animal who fights for you. It does not exist in the phenomenal world, only the noumenal one. Its appearance and behavior is basically a manifestation of your mental/emotional state, and how much power it has to throw around is a function of how strong your bond is with the person for whom you are fighting (or more particularly, how strong your will to fight for them is). You can control it by giving it commands, and more powerful familiars can respond to telempathic or telepathic cues. In the same way that you are your soul, not your body, you are your familiar, not your body. The process of becoming a noumenal girl takes your will to fight for this other person and uses it to give your soul this particular manifestation. It's made of noumenon and can only interact with noumenal things. Most people can't perceive it.

The noumenal plane exists in the same physical space as the phenomenal one, and contains noumenal representations of the things that exist in the phenomenal world. The noumenal world is shaped by peoples' thoughts and emotions, and can shape them in turn. For example, a person sitting in a room feels relaxed in the room, and associates the feeling of being relaxed with things like trees and plants. They leave a noumenal impression of trees and plants behind in the room, and someone else who comes by then might get a very light mental/emotional suggestion of the concept of trees and plants, which has less pleasant associations in their mind, and they begin to feel agitated without consciously knowing why. The noumenal world mostly resembles the phenomenal world, because people mostly think that the world is at appears to their senses, but emotions and daydreams and stray thoughts still get out and affect things.

Whether a person affects the local noumenal landscape or is affected by it is essentially a function of their native noumenal energy potential and their sense-of-self. People have a little psychic bubble around them of their own thoughts and feelings, which corresponds to their soul. Some produce more noumenal energy and thus leave more in the wake of their bubble, while some produce less noumenal energy and thus leave less in the wake of their bubble. Additionally, the bubble is sortof like the AT field in NGE - it represents an ego boundary. The stronger your sense-of-self, the more solid and less permeable your bubble is. A person with high noumenal energy potential and a weak sense-of-self leaks noumenal energy everywhere; a person with a low noumenal energy potential and a weak sense-of-self is highly susceptible to outside influence. People with a strong sense-of-self leave less of a noumenal trace and are less affected by the noumenal world.

Your ability to sense the noumenal world is related to the permeability of your bubble. Those with very solid bubbles exist in a noumenally solipsistic state because they are so unaffected by the noumenal landscape around them that from their perspective, the local noumenal landscape is just their own mental landscape. Those with very permeable bubbles are so consistently affected by the local noumenal landscape that it essentially becomes just another input stream for them. Those in the middle can potentially learn to perceive the noumenal world, but on their own typically just assume that anything unfamiliar in their mental landscape is a part of them, not something externally originated. Those who are highly self-aware are more likely to recognize when something in their mental landscape did not originate from themselves, and thus are more likely to notice the noumenal world. With proper training, someone can make their bubble one-way permeable, or selectively permeable, but it is hard to do.

Noumenal girls give up the natural mental defense of the bubble in the creation of their familiar. Essentially, their bubble turns into the familiar, leaving them more vulnerable to noumenal attack, but with an active defense that they can use to guard their charge as well as themselves. Noumenal girls whose familiars die essentially become soulless husks. Noumenal girls whose bodies die are souls without a connection to the phenomenal world, and are likely to go feral and become dangerous. It is also possible, although rare and difficult, for the bond between a noumenal girl's soul and body to be severed, leading to BOTH a soulless husk of a body AND an aggrieved and potentially deranged familiar. A bodiless familiar will generally try to carry out the purpose for which it was created - ie, protection of the person they chose to fight for. However, it is also very likely to quickly lose its grip of what exactly that means.

Noumenal girls are typically more noumenally sensitive people, who can observe that the person they care about is being noumenally targeted, and choose to defend them from that. However, those who are not natively sensitive can still become noumenal girls - it's just that they're less likely to be aware that someone is in noumenal danger and needs defense. Once someone is a noumenal girl, they become fully aware of their noumenal surroundings, because they lack the ego-boundary that buffered them from the noumenal world before. Whether this simply grants them heightened noumenal perception or causes them to experience something akin to schizophrenia is basically a matter of how they interpret the new input. Those who were previously highly sensitive typically have an easier time adjusting, while those who were not can experience something like extreme sensory overload, and some never manage to learn to process the new data. It is most rough on those with a strong sense-of-self and low self-awareness - those who previously existed in noumenal solipsism - because they are most likely to interpret the new information as themselves hallucinating and 'going crazy' rather than as them simply perceiving new information about the outside world.

It is possible to manipulate noumenal energy without being a noumenal girl. This is done through careful control of your mental/emotional state and your ego-bubble simultaneously. By learning to have vividly imagined, intensely emotional thoughts at will, and then let precisely what you intend out of your bubble while letting nothing in, you can have subtle effects on the world around you. This technique can be used to cultivate or architect the noumenal landscape - this can be advantageous in noumenal combat, because you can alter the terrain to your advantage, give yourself noumenal armor, and so on, and anything which exists on the noumenal plane will have to overcome those things in order to get at you.

However, affecting the landscape also subtly affects the mental states of those who pass through. Those who are skilled in this sort of noumenal technique can use it to influence other people to feel or think certain ways without those people being aware that they are being influenced. This sort of influence can range between "I just feel comfortable and safe and pleasant in this place, I'm not sure why; I guess I just like it here" to "I really feel like there ought to be a big skyscraper here, but it's clearly a park, and something doesn't feel right about that; I guess I'm in favor of that bill that would allow people to build skyscrapers here" to "that person is smaller than me and doesn't look threatening, but man do they feel big and scary and intimidating right now; I think I'll back off and go bother someone else" and more.

Creating noumenal constructs is only possible through the intentional and extreme manipulation of other sentient beings, followed by killing their bodies. Essentially, a noumenal manipulator convinces another being to, through a similar process as a noumenal girl turning her bubble into a familiar, alter their bubble into the desired sort of construct, and then severs the tie between the two. Creating constructs in this way is dangerous, because unless the noumenal manipulator has done everything with extreme care, the resulting noumenal creature is likely to be violently unstable, and especially likely to be hostile towards the manipulator rather than loyal to them. Those who can achieve this feat are essentially masters of brainwashing, cult leaders, etc.

So, that's what I've come up with for the magic system, so far. I have a few ideas on the world and its history, and basically none on potential characters or plots.
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Re: Noumenal Girls

Post by Kappa »

Naturally, the first thing I think of is how to fit a Joker into the world.

Jokers have sense of self the way black holes have gravity... but the logical consequence of having them be totally noumenally solipsistic seems off to me. Maybe I mean something different by sense of self than you do. I do think that they have plenty of the right kind of self-awareness (and the right kind of external awareness) to notice whatever noumenal information they're getting, though.

"By learning to have vividly imagined, intensely emotional thoughts at will" muahahahaha
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Re: Noumenal Girls

Post by Tamien »

Basically what I mean is that having a strong sense of self means that none of other people's mental/emotional residue can get past your natural barrier. The only stuff that is in your mind originates from you and what you perceive of the phenomenal world with your senses. Someone with such an impenetrable barrier would have a hard time even noticing that was anything else out there. It would be like, well, living in an impenetrable bubble. You'd think you were the only thing that was. (I don't mean you would literally think no one else existed - you'd have phenomenal evidence of other people and things - but your mindscape would be the only noumenal thing you'd have access to.)

Possible exceptions to this that I can think of would be people who are either not perfectly impenetrable and very self-aware, such that they'd notice even tiny perturbations within their bubble, or possibly someone with the right combination of self-awareness, sense of self, and empathy would get a sort of... naturally semi-permeable barrier? Like, they might be able to notice things that merely touched their barrier and let them in selectively? I need to think further on that too see if it works.
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Re: Noumenal Girls

Post by Kappa »

"self-awareness, sense of self, and empathy": In other words, Jokers, yes. XD Like - I would imagine them as being able to easily perceive what's going on in the world outside their bubble, without the contents of their bubble necessarily being changed by it.
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Re: Noumenal Girls

Post by Tamien »

Kappa wrote:Naturally, the first thing I think of is how to fit a Joker into the world.

Jokers have sense of self the way black holes have gravity... but the logical consequence of having them be totally noumenally solipsistic seems off to me. Maybe I mean something different by sense of self than you do. I do think that they have plenty of the right kind of self-awareness (and the right kind of external awareness) to notice whatever noumenal information they're getting, though.

"By learning to have vividly imagined, intensely emotional thoughts at will" muahahahaha
Basically, the way I'm thinking, putting out a lot of noumenal energy is sortof like charisma, and letting in a lot of noumenal energy is sortof like empathy. I'll think more on whether I want this sort of 'empathy' and this sort of 'charisma' to actually be at odds the way I've currently described, and how much they actually relate to actual empathy and actual charisma, and what that has to do with your sense-of-self. But as I've been conceptualizing it, empathy would mean you're directly affected by other peoples' mental/emotional states and you can more easily do that with those who you in some way see as part of your self-concept (similar to you, a member of your in-group, etc). Empathy would mean a sense of communality over a sense of individuality, which would mean a more permeable barrier. So having an impenetrable barrier would basically mean having an extremely strong sense of yourself as a unique individual, to the point of not identifying with others very much.

Jokers kinda screw with that because they are extremely adamant about Being Themselves and not anyone else, but they still identify with and empathize with other people. I think what that might mean in this case is that Jokers might fall into the category of "nothing gets in, but a LOT gets out". Basically, nothing outside of themselves affects their bubble or its contents, but they have such a strong noumenal presence that it overflows out of their bubble like crazy, and they end up with something like that kindof magical incontinence that the HP-verse Jokers have. If that were the case, rather than first becoming aware of the noumenal world like most people would - ie, by noticing its effects on themselves - Jokers might actually first notice what's going on by noticing their own effect on others, and would then be able to develop that into the sort of translucent-bubble effect where they're aware of what's going on outside their bubble, but what's in their bubble does not get changed by outside things.

If Jokers have a sense of self the way a black hole has gravity, then wouldn't that mean their sense of self is constantly consuming bits of other peoples' sense-of-selves? Because now I'm imagining a Joker as noumenal sun who just bathes everyone else around them in their mental/emotional experience, and then collapses into a noumenal singularity and pulls everyone's self-concept into their mental/emotional event horizon. And like, a cult-leader-ish Joker who pulls people in with the inescapable attraction of their pure Jokerishness is a scary idea. I am curious: what would a Joker do with the ability to essentially psychically sculpt the world around them to match their internal state or personal whims? How likely is a Joker in Noumenal Girl World to become a Bell's worst nightmare? :P

Also, sortof relatedly, I didn't mention it earlier, but the inside of someone's bubble is, to outsiders, sortof like being inside a witch's barrier in PMMM or like being inside someone's dream in Inception. Lots of hard-to-understand, hard-to-navigate personal mythology and symbology going on, jumbled with thoughts and memories and feelings, all layered onto what the person is actually experiencing at that moment, and they have control (whether conscious or not) of what goes on inside it, and you're there at the mercy of them not consciously noticing that you are an invading Other. I haven't really figured out under what circumstances one could actually be inside someone else's bubble in order to experience that, but if someone were to somehow manage, that's what it would be like. (In the case of an actual noumenal-sun/noumenal-black-hole Joker, they might be able to have a strong enough effect on the world around them to make that happen outside their barrier.)
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Re: Noumenal Girls

Post by Kappa »

The black hole comparison was meant to describe quantity, not anything else. XD

Jokers are exactly themselves and not any other things, and they also empathize strongly with other people, even ones who are not much like them at all. Not perfectly, but strongly. I like your idea about the noumenal sun, where they notice their effect on other people and develop that awareness into the ability to see out of their bubbles. But I don't think they'd end up sucking people in.

A joker who could psychically sculpt the world into whatever they wanted would tend to act on a combination of whim and empathy, which my gadget initially decided to spell as eggplant - I'm typing this on my tablet from bed. XD what I mean is that they would play around a lot, but would prefer to help people rather than hurt them and would seek ways to do that while still having fun. If someone managed to wander into their bubble or if they managed to overflow so the world became bubblier around therm, I think they're be concerned with not harming anyone, much more than with repelling the intruder, unless the intruder was trying to fuck with them in some highly unapproved way.
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Re: Noumenal Girls

Post by Tamien »

Yeah, I think noumenal-sun Jokers make the most sense. Early on they might have troubles if their trauma overflows onto the people around them, but I think they'd learn to get it in order and thereafter mainly affect things in playful or helpful ways. My doubt was because historically, there have also been Jokers who don't mind going around killing people or committing acts of terror and causing lots of casualties in the process. So I was thinking that a Joker in a situation like Winter or a Joker with a Bat might be less nice with their noumenal-sunniness.

I think it would be nice to be a welcome visitor in a Joker's bubble, and very very Not Nice to be an unwelcome one.
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Re: Noumenal Girls

Post by Kappa »

A joker who was in a bad state like that could make life very unpleasant, yeah. But the thing is, the more power to affect the world around them a joker has, the less likely they are to use it in nasty ways. And a joker like this would be likely to discover this power pretty early on. So it would take a hell of a lot of fuckery to get them into a wintery state.

I agree with your assessment about welcome vs unwelcome visitors XD
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