Reference in Methods of Rationality.

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Alicorn
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Re: Reference in Methods of Rationality.

Post by Alicorn »

Okay, uh, the references are not deployed in any organized and sane way. He didn't let me just outright design the potion. Eliezer took notes from me, but I was under significant constraint in giving my suggestions in the first place (they are not in order except loosely a fraction of the time when I could finagle it, and I often couldn't), and he had desiderata about tone and pacing which took precedence over taking my suggestions a) at all b) without removing parts that would have made them clearer. Several references made it in but missing pieces. I don't think he took the number of bellflowers into account when he made decisions like the merging thing into account at all (if he were counting Shell and Bell separately, or Juliet's fork, or for that matter Ara, there should have been more than thirty five). I do not guarantee that the references are going to be satisfying to figure out, given all that.
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Re: Reference in Methods of Rationality.

Post by BlueSkySprite »

Some thoughts on some of these!
a loose thread of gold wrapped around a pinch of foul-looking substance
Unclear, possibly Effulgence Nathan and the Joker or Tab and Chelsa
This seems like probably Minus because he is Sherlock wrapped around the lack of a soul? Or Mark because he is combined with another template?
Professor Quirrell dropped a pale beige-pink twig into the cauldron, and its color changed to white just as it touched the surface.
This seems like probably the Sherlock from Arceus because he is patched with Ditto DNA and those are pink and change colors.
Professor Quirrell dropped two bellflowers at once into the potion, and they seemed to merge as they touched the bubbling liquid.
Unclear; possibly Effulgence Shell Bell and Shell merging
I thought this seemed like possibly Izzy and Ara?
a bellflower and a scrap of parchment
Unclear, possibly Phoenix
I think this might be Sarion, because of her coin color?
a pinch of dirt and a drop of water and a bellflower
I thought this might be Katie because she is a plant? Or Chi because of the combination of elements?
a chip of ice, slowly melting as it touched the surface froth
Unclear, possibly Chelsa
I think this is probably Amariah because of her theme of unmelting ice.
A pinch of red-brown dust
Might be Ara and Izzy because they are from Mars?
a bellflower and then a different pale flower
Unclear, presumably a Bell and a Lexi or Soph
I thought this was probably either Rapunzel or Katie, because Rapunzel has flower powers and Katie is a flower.
he delicately peeled bits and small strips from a chunk of candle-wax
Maybe Kiri because this is how she seals letters with her fire powers?
a tuft of horsehair ... very late in the potion ... weren't many bellflowers left in the heap to be added
Probably Clarity
I think this is might be a Sherlock because of hair, so perhaps it's silver streak?
He picked up a jar of what looked like dragon scales.
Probably Sherial, because she is a dragon and scales are like hair?
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Re: Reference in Methods of Rationality.

Post by DanielH »

Oh, huh, I thought Shell was mentioned separately in the Roll Call (because she has her own account).

I am surprised the order was relevant to tone and pacing, but I guess I shouldn’t be. Once there’s a list of references, I’ll probably go through it and see whether I can figure out why putting them in Effulgence ToC order wouldn’t work as well; I want to be a better writer, and that seems like a good exercise. I have some vague guesses (the hammering of the butterfly wings worked well with Quirrell’s emotions at that point, for example, although that particular one was mostly in order), but only that.

Given that the order was not the primary criterion, I’m surprised it was as good as it was, then. The horsehair was near the end, Rapunzel was the third-from-last Bell, the first bellflower was added with not much else happening for a bit, Golden was the second unless I missed a reference, etc.
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Re: Reference in Methods of Rationality.

Post by Bluelantern »

I think at some point they mix a bit of peach in the potion, I think that is a reference to Lexi
Sorry for my bad english

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Re: Reference in Methods of Rationality.

Post by DanielH »

BlueSkySprite, I the ice was for Winter (the Narnian Joker). The permanent ice theme is more in Incandescence.

Also, my guesses:
a leaf colored in vivid shades of white, green, and purple.
???
White, green, and purple are Joker colors. I’m not sure why he’s a leaf, though.
picked up another bellflower and began crumbling it in his bare fist
???
I thought that was likely to be Shell, though that doesn’t explain the rose he crumbles similarly (unless that’s the Joker Voice captured). “Rose” is the Beauty and the Beast Bell, but being stuck in a castle isn’t vary analogous to crushing so that’s probably a false positive.
Another lock of bright hair, seeming white but not with age
Unclear, possibly Silver Streak.
I was thinking Sarelle Dochenza; I think white is an elay color, and she’s young.
Professor Quirrell turned up the fire beneath the potion.
???
I assumed that was Kiri, but there are a lot of possibilities here.

I think you also missed this, happening right before the dirt and water and bellflower:
Professor Quirrell blew on the potion as though to cool it, though the fire still burned under the cauldron
Not sure what that is, although I think it’s a reference to wind instead of cooling. Might also be a reference to Kiri being able to cool things, but that seems very unlikely.
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Re: Reference in Methods of Rationality.

Post by Adelene »

DanielH wrote:
a leaf colored in vivid shades of white, green, and purple.
???
White, green, and purple are Joker colors. I’m not sure why he’s a leaf, though.
This sounds like the dryad Joker to me.
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Re: Reference in Methods of Rationality.

Post by Kappa »

Professor Quirrel blows on the potion, while there is a fire under it, and adds a pinch of dirt and a drop of water, and then a bellflower.

It's Beila.
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Re: Reference in Methods of Rationality.

Post by Lambda »

Adelene wrote:
DanielH wrote:
Eliezer wrote: a leaf colored in vivid shades of white, green, and purple.
White, green, and purple are Joker colors. I’m not sure why he’s a leaf, though.
This sounds like the dryad Joker to me.
If you mean the nymph Joker from Materia, I think he's a field of grain, so presumably wouldn't have leaves.
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Re: Reference in Methods of Rationality.

Post by BlueSkySprite »

Adelene wrote:
DanielH wrote:
Eliezer wrote: a leaf colored in vivid shades of white, green, and purple.
White, green, and purple are Joker colors. I’m not sure why he’s a leaf, though.
Lambda wrote: This sounds like the dryad Joker to me.
If you mean the nymph Joker from Materia, I think he's a field of grain, so presumably wouldn't have leaves.
Also I think this is just Bells and Sherlocks?
Maybe it is Cam because it sounds like an edited plant?
I would think that if I were trying to represent a Joker I would go with a card or with something that changes shapes, or moves around.
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Re: Reference in Methods of Rationality.

Post by Alicorn »

Eliezer didn't solicit advice on how to represent Jokers.
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