Conlanging!

[Tamien]

Kappa has created a conlang called Támádh! Discussion of the linguistic features of Támádh (which began here) can continue in this thread! Also, feel free to talk about conlangs you have devised, conlangs you have encountered, or other linguisticky topics related to the creation of languages.

[Tamien]

I made an IPA chart for Támádh in the other thread. I will copy it here because I am still curious if it is accurate. I am also curious about other features of Támádh that have been created, and if any other languages have been created for RPs I have read!

my best guesses at IPA for Támádh

---

á /ɑ/
â /ʌ/
ä /æ/
é /ɛə/
ê /ɛ/
í /i/
î /ɪ/
ó /o/
áì /ai/
äu /aʊ/
éì /ɛɪ/
êì /ɛi/
w /ʊ/
ý /aɪ/
m /m/
f /f/
v /v/
l /l/
dh /ð/
th /θ/
d /d/
t /t/
s /s/
n /n/
r /ɹ/
hr /hɹ/
k /k/
h /h/

[Kappa]

Okay so I used to know the IPA once upon a time, but this knowledge has deserted me. If it helps your vowel charting, the accent leaning to the right vs hat accent is supposed to represent the tense/lax distinction across the board - á/â, é/ê, í/î, all tense/lax pairs. I've tried to go look up the symbols you used on Wikipedia (handy reference link from the other thread!) and see if they check out, but this has resulted in a lot of me muttering vowels to myself and not a whole lot of knowledge.

I am working on a Tamadh translation of the song Let it Go from Frozen! I have like three verses done, plus scattered other lines. XD Here it is. Details may be subject to change - in particular, lines that haven't yet been given actual Tamadh words, just rough conceptual sketches in English, may be altered when I get around to putting words in.

I have not come up with any detailed grammar, and if and when I do, some of the words in the song may be altered to conform XD

[Editing in my Tamadh chart to keep it close to the top of the thread for easy reference]

Code: Select all

 á	fAther, sOng
 â	whAt, trUck
 ä	cAt, lAdder, sAd
 é	sAY, nEIgh (approx., English doesn't quite have the right sound)
 ê	lEt, sEt
 í	mEEk, frEE
 î	sIt, pIck
 ó	nO, gO
áì	dIE, trY, fIre
äu	nOW, lOUd
éì	sAY, nEIgh (but with subtle differences from a bare 'é' - like plAYer rather than AIr)
êì	No English equivalent; pronouncing like 'éì' is close enough
 w	Closest English equivalent in floWer, Wet; sOOn/dUE would be a mostly adequate substitute
 ý	dIE, trY, fIre (but with subtle differences from 'áì' - spoken shorter, draws out differently) 
 m	triM, Mother
 f	staFF, Furniture
 v	Volume, aVerse
 l	Load, aLL
dh	THem, anoTHer
th	THin, cloTH
 d	Derelict, reD
 t	Ton, aTTracT
 s	thiS, Several
 n	Not, alteratioN
 r	waR, Real
hr	As 'h' followed by 'r'; English does this in 'her' and nowhere else I know of
 k	luCK, Kill
 h	Hat, unHoly

[Tamien]

Hm! Okay.

Yeah, unfortunately Wikipedia's sound clips are not super useful - the pronunciations of the vowels in particular do not really sound much like they typically do and are only somewhat helpful for figuring out what sound corresponds to what symbol.

I'm not sure how tense/lax applies in general (it never struck me as a terribly systematic distinction), and in particular I would naively expect a tense "e" to be an "ee" sound and a tense "i" to ALSO be an "ee" sound. And from the words you gave as phonetic examples, you have the vowel in lEt and sEt as a tense "e" and the dipthong in sAY and nEIGH as a lax "e", which is the reverse from what I would expect?

But um, based on that idea, I would expect (English word examples based on my dialect):

á - /ɑ/ (as in pAstA or pAlm)
â - /æ/ (as in cAt or hAd)
é - /ɛ/ (as in lEd or hEAD)
ê - /ɛɪ/ (as in bAse or lAce)
í - /ɪ/ (as in fIt or hId)
î - /i/ (as in fEEt or hEEd)

but that seems to contradict some other stuff you said about the other letters, so I donno >_< Maybe I'll try to record myself saying vowels and find a way to post it and you can say if I'm saying them right.

Also I find it interesting that Támádh doesn't have a high-back-rounded vowel - it's got /o/ (dOH/nO) and and one that seems like it could be /ʊ/ (wOOd/sOOt/hOOd), but nothing that seems like it maps to /u/ (whO/bOO/shOO).

I kindof really love your translation of "Let It Go", though >> Several lines gave me good shivery feelings! I can't wait to see the whole thing done.

[PlainDealingVillain]

Ooh conlanging. I think your IPA for w is probably wrong; Kappa's description sounds like it's IPA y, or possibly ɯ. Kappa, do you speak German/French/some other European language that isn't English? They mostly use one or both of those vowels.

Also, I may have to finally listen to Let it Go just so I can read that translation properly.


For myself, I have a conlang in progress, but because I am a perfectionist idiot with impossibly high standards, despite being my first conlang attempt, it is principally a script, which is pictographic and written along two dimensions, and the secondary, non-written form is sign language. (It's for aliens, not humans. Their word for 'barbarian' is literally translated 'those who speak'.) I know neither a pictographic language nor a sign language, so don't expect me to have anything to show off anytime soon.

[Tamien]

You're probably right; I was very unsure of what that one might be. I was thinking maybe the sort of syllabic w that Welsh has, which is /ʊ/ at least part of the time, but /ɯ/ sounds a bit more "w"ish.

Your conlang sounds awesome! I have studied ASL somewhat and also have a degree in Linguistics and have done some minor conlanging and would totally love to see what you have, so if you want help or feedback or someone to just be like eeeeee at your conlang I am totally up for that.

[Kappa]

I speak an amount of French, and a tiny bit of German, enough to know mostly what sound/s you're talking about. Tamadh w isn't that. I have never encountered a recognizable Tamadh w in any Earth language.

Tamadh é is French é; the English examples fall short because English does funny things to that vowel. You have é and ê, and í and î, the wrong way around in that list, and you have á right but your â sound is the sound of ä; â should be as per my original chart, whAt/cUp/sUck/recOver/Um, whereas ä is cAt/sAd/mAp/Add/brAt. I guess the tense/lax tip was not very useful. I swear I remember it how it was taught to me and it makes perfect sense that way, but clearly it doesn't make perfect sense to everyone. Or you mixed up which order I meant them to go in? But yeah.

Now I've edited my original chart into my first post in this thread, for easier reference. And added a note about é.

[PlainDealingVillain]

Okay, so â is the mighty schwa, and w is some complicated syllabic-semivowel-like-thing that probably doesn't have a proper IPA symbol (though as long as human mouths can make it there's probably some way to assemble it by stacking modifier marks). Don't know how we could read Kappa's mind on this. Do you pronounce flour and flower differently?

[Kappa]

â is not the mighty schwa, it's that other thing that's very similar to the mighty schwa but isn't quite it. But you won't go that far wrong if you read it that way, I guess. It's hard to come up with good examples for it, and I might have been incorrectly citing a bunch of things that were the mighty schwa instead of the thing I wanted.

I do pronounce flour and flower differently, apparently! I can't hear the difference, but I can feel it in the way my mouth moves when I say the two things. Flower has a w in it.

[PlainDealingVillain]

I have been making meaningful progress on my conlang (It is provisionally called Shskle), and been rambling about it at length on my Dreamwidth blog. Y'all might find this interesting.