Cooperative Zendo

Not the kind with cardstock and pawns. Mostly play by post Mafia so far.
User avatar
pedromvilar
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:48 am
Pronouns: *shrug*
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Post by pedromvilar »

Moriwen wrote:So for a while single letters alternate between yes and no: a no, b yes, c no, d yes, e no, f yes, g no, h yes, i no, j yes -- but by that rule "o" should be a no, and it's a yes. Which is odd.

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
ba
baa
aa
babel
k
l
m
n
p
Yes, no, yes, yes, yes, yes, no, yes, no, no
Information
Link to rule's start post

Acceptable Koans
Strings of accentless English letters of any length.

Hash
0a7dd392f13aabecec354deffcff56b0a93c7ce4

Yes
bbb
b
[empty string]
bb
BBB
B
d
f
h
j
o
ay
ae
ea
nth
aeiou
aoeui
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
baa
aa
babel
k
m

No
bee
beb
bbe
beeb
ebe
eeb
e
be
bbc
BEE
c
C
E
g
i
a
u
y
l
n
p
Moriwen
Posts: 479
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:54 pm
Pronouns: she/her

Re: Cooperative Zendo

Post by Moriwen »

Okay so "o" is still the one exception from the alternation of single letters, that's bizarre. It's #15 in the alphabet, #14 if we're starting at zero, 15 or -11 if we're working mod 26 ... it's odd but not prime, but "a" (1) and "i" (9) behave normally ... they're both perfect squares though ... maybe something about number of factors? but that seems like it might be too much like the last rule... I should try 21, that's u.

EDIT: duh, brain, Pedro points out that "n" and "p" are exceptions too. So it looks like it reverses at the midway point.

I wonder if there's something going on with odd-numbered letters only being allowed to repeat even numbers of times and vice versa, or something like that?

u
bcc
bba
aaa
aaaa
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
dd
ddd
aba
abba
User avatar
pedromvilar
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:48 am
Pronouns: *shrug*
Contact:

Re: Cooperative Zendo

Post by pedromvilar »

Moriwen wrote:u
bcc
bba
aaa
aaaa
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
dd
ddd
aba
abba
No, yes, no, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, yes
Information
Link to rule's start post

Acceptable Koans
Strings of accentless English letters of any length.

Hash
0a7dd392f13aabecec354deffcff56b0a93c7ce4

Yes
bbb
b
[empty string]
bb
BBB
B
d
f
h
j
o
ay
ae
ea
nth
aeiou
aoeui
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
baa
aa
babel
k
m
bcc
aaaa
dd
aba
abba

No
bee
beb
bbe
beeb
ebe
eeb
e
be
bbc
BEE
c
C
E
g
i
a
u
y
l
n
p
u
bba
aaa
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
ddd
User avatar
DanielH
Posts: 3745
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:50 pm
Pronouns: he/him/his

Re: Cooperative Zendo

Post by DanielH »

q
r
s
t
v
w
x
y
z

There is another change in pattern between o and u.

Because of the location of the first change, I expect it to continue alternating until t. Probably letters are being converted to base-10 numbers somewhere in the process.
User avatar
pedromvilar
Posts: 1172
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Pronouns: *shrug*
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Post by pedromvilar »

DanielH wrote:q
r
s
t
v
w
x
y
z
Yes, no, no, yes, yes, no, yes, no, yes
Information
Link to rule's start post

Acceptable Koans
Strings of accentless English letters of any length.

Hash
0a7dd392f13aabecec354deffcff56b0a93c7ce4

Yes
bbb
b
[empty string]
bb
BBB
B
d
f
h
j
o
ay
ae
ea
nth
aeiou
aoeui
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
baa
aa
babel
k
m
bcc
aaaa
dd
aba
abba
q
t
v
x
z

No
bee
beb
bbe
beeb
ebe
eeb
e
be
bbc
BEE
c
C
E
g
i
a
u
y
l
n
p
u
bba
aaa
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
ddd
r
s
w
y
User avatar
DanielH
Posts: 3745
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:50 pm
Pronouns: he/him/his

Re: Cooperative Zendo

Post by DanielH »

Thoughts
Well there goes that hypothesis. I suppose I could still be partially right, but probably not. I cannot think of a way for an off-by-one error with different indexing to revive the hypothesis, either.

It alternates, starting with a being no, except everything between k and r incisive is inverted relative to that pattern. That is eight letters, not centered in the alphabet. I can’t see any relevance to the ASCII codes either.

Nope, I don’t have anything more substantive than that. The weird mostly-alteration reminds me of month lengths but I can’t find a relation.
Moriwen
Posts: 479
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:54 pm
Pronouns: she/her

Re: Cooperative Zendo

Post by Moriwen »

thoughts
So single letters go:
[a-no, b-yes, c-no, d-yes, e-no, f-yes, g-no, h-yes, i-no, j-yes] [k-yes, l-no, m-yes, n-no, o-yes, p-no, q-yes, r-no] [s-no, t-yes, u-no, v-yes, w-no, x-yes, y-no, z-yes].
The chunk lengths are [10][8][8]. The cut-off points are between 10 and 11 (j and k) and between 18 and 19 (r and s).
If we think of it as wrapping around at z, we have one chunk of length 18 running from s to j, and one of length 8 running from k to r.

Strings of a's go:
[a-no, aa-yes, aaa-no, aaaa-yes]. This looks like another alternation?
On the other hand, strings of b's go:
[b-yes, bb-yes, bbb-yes].

Tentative hypothesis: "a" is somehow "odd", so having a single a or an odd number of them is an odd total, which is a "no." "b" is "even", so having any number of b's is even and so a "yes." That would suggest that we're in some way adding up the values of the letters in the string.

Proceeding to test the hypothesis.
aaaaa [5 a's]
aaaaaa [6 a's]
bbbb [4 b's]
bbbbb [5 b's]
ddd [3 d's]
eee [3 e's]
aaaaaaaaaaa [11 a's]
kkk [3 k's]
lll [3 l's]
aabbccddeeffgghhiijjkkllmmnnooppqqrrssttuuvvwwxxyyzz [doubled alphabet]
User avatar
pedromvilar
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:48 am
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Post by pedromvilar »

Moriwen wrote:aaaaa [5 a's]
aaaaaa [6 a's]
bbbb [4 b's]
bbbbb [5 b's]
ddd [3 d's]
eee [3 e's]
aaaaaaaaaaa [11 a's]
kkk [3 k's]
lll [3 l's]
aabbccddeeffgghhiijjkkllmmnnooppqqrrssttuuvvwwxxyyzz [doubled alphabet]
No, yes, yes, no, no, yes, yes, yes, no, no
Information
Link to rule's start post

Acceptable Koans
Strings of accentless English letters of any length.

Hash
0a7dd392f13aabecec354deffcff56b0a93c7ce4

Yes
bbb
b
[empty string]
bb
BBB
B
d
f
h
j
o
ay
ae
ea
nth
aeiou
aoeui
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
baa
aa
babel
k
m
bcc
aaaa
dd
aba
abba
q
t
v
x
z
aaaaaa
bbbb
eee
aaaaaaaaaaa
kkk

No
bee
beb
bbe
beeb
ebe
eeb
e
be
bbc
BEE
c
C
E
g
i
a
u
y
l
n
p
u
bba
aaa
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
ddd
r
s
w
y
aaaaa
bbbbb
ddd
lll
aabbccddeeffgghhiijjkkllmmnnooppqqrrssttuuvvwwxxyyzz
User avatar
DanielH
Posts: 3745
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:50 pm
Pronouns: he/him/his

Re: Cooperative Zendo

Post by DanielH »

Interesting. I see that there is a passing long string of b already accepted. Let’s see if the ones around it also work:

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
User avatar
pedromvilar
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:48 am
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Post by pedromvilar »

DanielH wrote:bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
No, no, no, no, yes, yes, yes, no, no, no
Information
Link to rule's start post

Acceptable Koans
Strings of accentless English letters of any length.

Hash
0a7dd392f13aabecec354deffcff56b0a93c7ce4

Yes
bbb
b
[empty string]
bb
BBB
B
d
f
h
j
o
ay
ae
ea
nth
aeiou
aoeui
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
baa
aa
babel
k
m
bcc
aaaa
dd
aba
abba
q
t
v
x
z
aaaaaa
bbbb
eee
aaaaaaaaaaa
kkk
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb

No
bee
beb
bbe
beeb
ebe
eeb
e
be
bbc
BEE
c
C
E
g
i
a
u
y
l
n
p
u
bba
aaa
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
ddd
r
s
w
y
aaaaa
bbbbb
ddd
lll
aabbccddeeffgghhiijjkkllmmnnooppqqrrssttuuvvwwxxyyzz
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
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