Ask A Delene

[Kappa]

I have vague questiony feelings but no actual questions as such.

[Diaeresis]

is it possible to cast a spell on a person but have the trigger be something the enspelled can control?

[pedromvilar]

I think the implied answer is "yes" since the opposite of that is specifically called a hex? That's what Sadde and I understood anyway.

[DanielH]

Yes; we have seen that in various sandboxen. See the one with Kiri, for example.

[Diaeresis]

yeah, i see it now after going back and rereading.

[DanielH]

A question neither Sadde present could have thought of, although there is one who could: can daemons they get rid of a hex? If it’s the soul “remembering”, could you explicitly tell your soul to forget about a spell?

Another question that none of them could have thought of because they don’t know the relevant spell target: how does turning a twine circle into a twine line count as breaking it into multiple pieces?

Some questions they could have asked:
Could a 10 detect magic let people see enough of the necessary details to know how to place crystals to eventually charge?
Could you build a magic Turing machine? I don’t think anything except the variable changing magic has been mentioned which allows a memory, and that doesn’t seem like it could quite do it.
Blueprints, circuit diagrams, etc. have the same sort of symbol vocabulary instead of key. Is that potentially a better metaphor than music notation or cartography?

Finally, a question not about the magic system:
Is the end of the first paragraph of this reply about Matilda?

[Adelene]

is it possible to cast a spell on a person but have the trigger be something the enspelled can control?

Yep, and it can be set up to use either mental triggers or physical ones (clapping their hands, making a particular gesture), which I should probably mention explicitly.

It's also possible but less commonly done to set the triggers up to allow third parties or outside situations to trigger the spell with the spellbearer's consent - generally the setup there is that the spellbearer can set the spell to be active or inactive with a mental trigger, and if it's in active mode and the other trigger happens the spell goes off. An example of how this might be used would be for someone going into a dangerous situation to have a spell that would teleport them to someplace where they could get medical care if they went unconscious or were in an extreme amount of pain or if someone (presumably an ally) said the spell's trigger word.

A question neither Sadde present could have thought of, although there is one who could: can daemons they get rid of a hex? If it’s the soul “remembering”, could you explicitly tell your soul to forget about a spell?

Not straightforwardly. Reasserting a known spell is an automatic action, more automatic than breathing. If you have magic available that will erase the memory, and you also at the same time break the spell so it can't be re-learned, that would do it, but that's not available in-world. (Otherworldly magic that can just straightforwardly break or dispell the spell may also work, and is the better bet for stories; in-world they know that spells on living things don't break but they don't know the mechanics behind that.)

Another question that none of them could have thought of because they don’t know the relevant spell target: how does turning a twine circle into a twine line count as breaking it into multiple pieces?

A crack can break a spell even if it doesn't go all the way through the object, and untying the twine counts as that since it stops parts of the object that were enspelled next to each other from being next to each other. Thinking more closely about it, it seems like how strict the spell is about this should be able to be set by the mage (or a sufficiently good mage) on casting; you have to set it to the loosest possible version to cast on liquids, and Lurker does a strict-ish one when she makes twineportals specifically so that the spell is easy to break. (This is also a place where having good coordination helps even if your form is mediocre, then, and the default/easiest form is middling strict and allows for twineportals like we've seen but not casting on water or spells that break given a hairline crack.)

Some questions they could have asked:
Could a 10 detect magic let people see enough of the necessary details to know how to place crystals to eventually charge?

That could be the magic detection form's capstone, yeah. I don't expect it to come up in a story, though.

Could you build a magic Turing machine? I don’t think anything except the variable changing magic has been mentioned which allows a memory, and that doesn’t seem like it could quite do it.

I don't know enough about Turing machines to actually answer this question, but probably yes (might need a specialized form but such a form can probably exist); definitely yes if you want to build a physical machine that uses magic for its logic circuits and rocks or something for its memory.

Blueprints, circuit diagrams, etc. have the same sort of symbol vocabulary instead of key. Is that potentially a better metaphor than music notation or cartography?

That's a valid but less good metaphor; blueprints and circuit diagrams have less of the detailed sensory/artlike element. "The road curves like this" is an important part of maps, and the equivalent sort of detail is important to this language.

Is the end of the first paragraph of this reply about Matilda?

Yes. :D

[Adelene]

Aestrix and I were talking about how a Yvette might turn out in Carp, and it turned into worldbuilding: apparently there are desert kobolds.

chatlog

---

(4:07:37 PM) ***Adelene finds self wondering what a Carp-native Yvette would look like/whether she'd cross paths with Lurker like Kappa's trying to get the Matilda to. ^^
(4:07:47 PM) Aestrix: Hee <3
(4:07:53 PM) Aestrix: I have no idea!
(4:08:04 PM) Aestrix: I don't think I know Carp well enough to import without a plot in mind
(4:08:20 PM) Adelene: The relevant parts of Carp are left pretty loose, yeah.
(4:08:57 PM) Adelene: I kind of suspect she'd end up as either a human or maybe an elf? Not impossible she'd be a dwarf but that doesn't really seem like her aesthetic.
(4:09:31 PM) Aestrix: Nah
(4:09:32 PM) Adelene: Goblin and various species of animalperson are also options but seem even less likely.
(4:09:36 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:09:50 PM) Aestrix: She's actually leaning human because the elves sort of offend her sensibilities
(4:10:03 PM) Adelene: (I could in fact see her as a kobold but it seems like it'd have to be a slightly different culture from Lurker's.)
(4:10:14 PM) Aestrix: Hee <3
(4:10:16 PM) Aestrix: Yeah
(4:10:32 PM) Aestrix: She likes kobold more than she likes elf, that is for sure. xD
(4:10:36 PM) Adelene: hee ^^
(4:11:34 PM) Aestrix: She's just looking blankly at the Carp elf and going. "... I am not being that thing. What, you think that because I can show up as an elf in other places I will here? Yeah, no. They're too themselves for my taste."
(4:11:42 PM) Adelene: heh.
(4:11:46 PM) Aestrix: "Even with my high rate of 'screw the system.'"
(4:12:03 PM) Adelene: City elves are a thing and less that, but yes.
(4:12:14 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:14:28 PM) Adelene: (Portalbold: *looks at kobold Yvette* *looks at Inavet* *looks at kobold Yvette* *makes a distressed noise*) *giggle*
(4:14:36 PM) Aestrix: Ahahahahaha <3
(4:14:45 PM) Aestrix: kobold Yvette: "AAAAAA!"
(4:14:48 PM) Aestrix: Inavet: "?"
(4:14:54 PM) Aestrix: Kobold Yvette: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA."
(4:14:59 PM) Aestrix: Inavet: "???"
(4:15:12 PM) Aestrix: Kobold Yvette: "AA-"
(4:15:21 PM) Aestrix: Inavet: "I am leaving now, please stop panicking."
(4:15:27 PM) Aestrix: Kobold Yvette: "... k."
(4:15:31 PM) Adelene: heee <3
(4:28:46 PM) Adelene: hmmmmm
(4:28:54 PM) Aestrix: Hmm?
(4:28:57 PM) Adelene: Kobold cultures that could contain a Yvette.
(4:29:02 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:29:49 PM) Aestrix: She is actually surprisingly okay with current kobold culture
(4:30:01 PM) Aestrix: It's a bit not what she as a template is used to but she doesn't find it objectionable like elves
(4:30:07 PM) Adelene: I think what we'd be looking at there is something mostly similar to Lurker's culture but with some sort of... non-tribe-member 'accessory role' lifestyle with kobolds that live alone or in smaller-than-tribe groups?
(4:30:15 PM) Aestrix: *nod!*
(4:30:23 PM) Aestrix: She finds that a nice idea!
(4:30:43 PM) Adelene: I'm not sure what the role /is/ but 'preserve access to some kind of resource' seems likely.
(4:30:52 PM) Aestrix: *nod nod*
(4:32:02 PM) Adelene: I /almost/ want to say that this is desert kobolds and the tribes are nomadic and the nontribes defend oaisises, but that seems incorrect for unclear kobold-related reasons.
(4:32:10 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:32:26 PM) Adelene: Something structurally like that, though.
(4:32:32 PM) Aestrix: :D
(4:32:44 PM) Adelene: ^^
(4:38:10 PM) Adelene: (She seems much, much more likely to come in kobold if she also gets a Revan to do it with, and /my/ brain insists that the Revan is a Speaker.)
(4:38:20 PM) Aestrix: Ahahaha!
(4:38:21 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:38:25 PM) Aestrix: Yeah
(4:38:33 PM) Aestrix: Revan refuses to believe that he would ever not be a Speaker
(4:38:42 PM) Adelene: *nodnod*
(4:38:55 PM) Aestrix: "... Author. It's me. I have a THING with languages."
(4:39:01 PM) Adelene: *snicker*
(4:39:13 PM) Aestrix: "I used my bullshit language skills to figure out programming languages and then MADE A PERSON."
(4:39:19 PM) Aestrix: "I mean seriously."
(4:39:41 PM) Aestrix: "If you do not make me a Speaker I am going to give you the Look of Disappointment."
(4:41:41 PM) Adelene: Also in this culture most tribes don't have Speakers because the nontribe groups /need/ them and they're basically not even allowed to learn if they're not intending to subsequently go do that. (Revans might have a problem with this as stated but in-world it's handled much, much less bluntly and really as a background assumption, so if that's avoidable it's probably avoided.) And they're much heavier on the general diplomacy than on the knowing a specific set of people really well, which suits him.
(4:42:07 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:43:00 PM) Aestrix: Yeah Revan is kind of. "... I am not okay with being a Speaker and then expected to go do a specific thing."
(4:43:41 PM) Adelene: Actually I think what /probably/ happens there is that the Revan is like 'I want to Speaker but this requirement is bullshit' and the Yvette is like '...but I /want/ to go do that' and the Revan is like '... ... ... ........... ...yeah okay'.
(4:43:49 PM) Aestrix: <3 <3 <3
(4:43:53 PM) Aestrix: Yeah
(4:43:54 PM) Adelene: ^^
(4:44:22 PM) Aestrix: So they might end up both being Speakers and equivalent-of-oasis-watching-together
(4:45:09 PM) Adelene: I'm actually not getting Yvette as a Speaker? I could see her picking up some language but probably not to what-passes-for-fluency and being an actual Speaker is a different thing again.
(4:45:18 PM) Aestrix: *nod nod*
(4:45:21 PM) Aestrix: Fair
(4:46:04 PM) Adelene: Capacity to learn language should probably run in families to the point where her not being completely aphasic isn't remarkable in context, though.
(4:46:14 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:48:24 PM) Adelene: Aaactually I think what my brain might be prodding me about with this is that if there are desert kobolds, they and forest kobolds don't consider themselves part of the same group. Like, they're not different species but they'd be different races and inclined, mutually on a cultural level, to consider that relevant?
(4:48:34 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:48:35 PM) Aestrix: *nod nod*
(4:48:47 PM) Aestrix: Gosh kobold Revan and Yvette are cute
(4:48:52 PM) Adelene: hee ^^
(4:49:10 PM) Aestrix: The two of them are already pretty comfy together as siblings?
(4:49:22 PM) Aestrix: And being kobolds kind of magnifies that a bit for some reason
(4:49:25 PM) Adelene: <3
(4:49:55 PM) Aestrix: If one of them's even mildly upset about a thing the other is going to A: caregive, and B: snuggle.
(4:50:02 PM) Adelene: Yes <3
(4:50:07 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:50:50 PM) Adelene: hmmmm
(4:50:57 PM) Aestrix: (... Also apparently their mom took great joy in the egg game before they hatched.)
(4:51:15 PM) Adelene: Desert kobolds do names? To a greater degree than forest kobolds do, anyway.
(4:51:21 PM) Aestrix: Oo :D
(4:51:25 PM) Adelene: *giggles @ egg game*
(4:51:28 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:52:26 PM) Adelene: Like what I'm getting here is that Revan definitely has one, Yvette probably has one, any given chief almost certainly has one, random tribe kobolds... something? I don't think they universally do but there's a thing there.
(4:52:58 PM) Aestrix: I think it went, she had an egg, egg game proceeded, and then she liked the egg game so much that she actually went and got another egg after Revan was moderately big because WOW THIS IS FUN WHEE
(4:53:05 PM) Aestrix: Hee!
(4:53:07 PM) Aestrix: Yeah that works for me
(4:53:08 PM) Adelene: *giggle*
(4:53:42 PM) Adelene: They treat names more like titles, I think at very least you have to earn one, but being a Speaker you /have/ to have one, it's how your oasis-or-whatever is designated.
(4:53:46 PM) Aestrix: (Also she informed me that she'll accept feminine pronouns right now just for my sake, but if this is ever written I must use they or she'll be pissed.)
(4:53:55 PM) Aestrix: *nod!*
(4:53:55 PM) Adelene: *nodnod*
(4:55:25 PM) Adelene: hmmm
(4:55:42 PM) Adelene: something about magic in this culture *pokes at*
(4:56:01 PM) Aestrix: (... Also Yvette imprinted on Revan.)
(4:56:07 PM) Aestrix: (And adorably followed them around.)
(4:56:16 PM) Adelene: awwwwwwwwwww <3<3<3
(4:56:19 PM) Aestrix: <3
(4:56:42 PM) Aestrix: Revan was not an adult kobold at this point and was pretty tiny themself!
(4:57:00 PM) Aestrix: Not super tiny, but moderately tiny.
(4:57:27 PM) Adelene: For one thing, in forest kobold tribes the Speaker is the chief's... minder/confidant/leutenant sort of thing, and in desert kobold tribes the mage ... mages? mages, apparently ... do that, instead. Like, collectively.
(4:57:40 PM) Aestrix: Ooo
(4:58:06 PM) Adelene: The Yvette may but is not obligated to be a mage.
(4:58:20 PM) Aestrix: Are you kidding, she would love to be a mage
(4:58:48 PM) Adelene: The Revan, too, for that matter, which would be pretty scandalous in forest kobold culture.
(4:58:56 PM) Aestrix: Ahahaha
(4:59:11 PM) Adelene: (On the basis of also being a Speaker; you're not supposed to double up on the power roles.)
(4:59:15 PM) Aestrix: *nod*
(5:00:33 PM) Adelene: Oasis groups don't always have a mage and tend to have underpowered ones compared to tribes; one thing in this culture is that a tribe staying at an oasis is supposed to contribute to its magical upkeep.
(5:00:53 PM) Aestrix: *nod nod*
(5:02:25 PM) Adelene: hmmm including magical defenses, traps, and outright weaponry. Forest kobolds don't get offensive magic; desert ones do.
(5:03:01 PM) Aestrix: :D
(5:03:18 PM) Adelene: (Between everything being sand and, like, sandstorms, it's hard to keep magical stuff in a desert.)
(5:04:15 PM) Aestrix: <3
(5:04:21 PM) Aestrix: A bit
(5:09:47 PM) Adelene: So I think how desert kobolds work is that they don't actually have meetups; there's no way to support that many kobolds in one place. What they do instead is that when someone wants to leave their tribe, they stay behind at an oasis and join up with the next one that comes through that they like the look of. This means that part of Revan's job is helping with that; vouching for the kobold to the new tribe (and occasionally /not/ vouching for them to a tribe, which sometimes means a hard choice about letting them stick around or, uh, not doing that) and helping them settle in and that sort of thing.
(5:10:11 PM) Aestrix: *nod nod*
(5:26:36 PM) Adelene: I'm pretty sure that desert kobolds get, and make very heavy use of, whatever sort of finding-things-at-a-distance magic exists. Which means I need to work that out, 'cause it's not at /all/ obvious how it would exist within the intended limitations of this sort of magic.

[MaggieoftheOwls]

Egg game?

[Adelene]

A large chunk of kobold social interaction revolves around hiding and finding and 'stealing' trinkets (they don't do ownership so the connotations are rather different); a subset of that game involves stealing each others' eggs/stealing your egg back from whoever stole it in the first place.