Elfthreads!

[DanielH]

Oh, yes, I know the Silmarillion uses those names throughout for consistency and it makes perfect sense. It also gives the Oath with the translated name for the same reason.

But, apparently, Morgoth's Ring gives the Oath with his Quenya name, but nowhere could I find a version of the Doom with that. It seems weird that people in Valinor, writing about something that happened in Valinor, would use the name translated into Sindarin outside the context of the larger work.

[DanielH]

How wpuld you describe the different attituses of the Silmaril Corbelan and the “as if you were blind” one to their respective Maitimos? They have mostly the same information, but they came to different conclusions about how trustowrthy the Maitimo was with more power. How much of this is path-dependence and how much is having crossed some extra lines in Silmaril and then not having a good explanation?

In particular, I don’t think either of them have the right attitude. The sandbox one seems to trust him too much (especially after seeing interdimensional skepticism), and although I wouldn’t trust either Maitimo with a Kingship I would absolutely trust both of them with planet-eating magic unless they expect it will be able to get much more abstract than I think they have so far managed.

[Kappa]

I wouldn't trust the Silmaril!Sunlight with planet-eating magic because he had a panic reaction that involved forcing someone into contradictory oaths, and I would not want to see what his panic reactions with planet-eating magic looked like.

[lintamande]

Sunlights object that they knew this to be a temporary and reversible state of affairs with effects on only one person, and definitely reflect 'being okay with torturing Findekáno' but not 'might blow up a planet in a tantrum'. On the other hand I think a Sunlight with world-destroying magic and not all the incentive post-peal Sunlights have to behave themselves would be totally willing to credibly threaten to use the world-destroying magic and then to follow through on that. (Even non-evil Maitimos will absolutely start a nuclear war in the wrong circumstances.)

[Kappa]

I'm not necessarily saying that Sunlight definitely isn't trustworthy with planet-eating magic based on that, just that it is a reasonable precaution not to give planet-eating magic to someone who reacts to a sudden and frightening change in circumstances by committing war crimes.

[DanielH]

Yeah, I have more information than Corbelan (eithe of them). For example, I know how long the thread where a Miles met an evil Maitimo was and I am very suspicious of the much shorter reformation.

And I think they should only trust him with world-destroying magic post-pealing; they don’t have enough information before that. I am surprised he would use the magic unsafely before that, since he’s an Elf and doesn’t want the world destroyed, but it makes sense as a doomsday device.

[lintamande]

AU Sunlight's reformation is sincere insofar as it's about actions; he doesn't plan on doing secret evil stuff. It'll take some time for sincerity about beliefs to catch up, but given the right incentives they will eventually catch up. He won't do things that'll make his Cor regret having trusted him, and finds it very touching (and very useful) to be so trusted.

[Alicorn]

Both Cors expect past behavior to be predictive of future behavior. In both cases past behavior includes mistreating Findekáno, but in one case Maitimo doubled down on that to stay in control of the situation and demonstrated that he was not safe for Cor to be around to work on him if Cor wanted to. In the other he presented a consistent-with-evidence narrative that on some level *Sunlight's model of Cor's personality* is steering, which is a compromise option that works fine for both, and was safe for Cor personally. He didn't angle super hard to let his Maitimo have unchecked access to anything even so.

[Ezra]

Silmaril map as of not a bare stretch

[jalapeno_dude]

..recent events in I could show you incredible things make me want to see a fic in which Celegorm actually ends up marrying Luthien and attempting to run Doriath in the same style as Telkam is attempting. (Though admittedly it'd probably work better with elves...)