Alicornutopia

Okay, this is interesting. I'm taking back my vote for now.

In response, I also take back my vote for the reasons outlined in my last post (and because I think it might not take very many more votes for the day to end early with a kill).

...oh, goody (sarcasm), that looks like either a miscommunication or a lie. You're not helping my trust in you, Alphabeta. I temporarily take back my vote.

Hey, Alpha, I assume you got some text sent to you from the mods about how Chelsea works. Assuming the mods say it's legal for you to paste it at us -- can you please paste it at us? That way we can stop having inexact definitions of the rules told to us piecemeal. And if it turns out that we catch you in a lie, well, um. Being shifty and mistrustful is one thing. But if you start directly lying to us I really think we should be killing you -- if we know we can't trust you we should get rid of you. What is the exact text of the rules here, please? (Unless the mods say you're not allowed to paste at us).

Oh, good; I half expected that when I got back here it would be night 5 already.

I should have done this last night, but of course I vote against Alphabeta. Since I’m supposedly Chelsea’d to Alphabeta, this should be impossible.

@kuskytkolme, I didn’t acknowledge Alphabeta’s mistrust of me directly, but I did indirectly. Alphabeta’s mistrust of me was based on my poor voting history; he then said “futurevision voted for him, but a mistaken vote isn't necessarily indicative of guilt.”. I responded with “@Alphabeta Yeah, I agree a mistaken vote isn’t necessarily indicative of guilt.”. I hoped that would remind him of my posts the previous night he hadn’t gotten a chance to respond to.

Alphabeta wrote:
you can vote no lynch (or try to get an actual serial killer, those are still a problem) if you really want to go for the Chelsea victory, I suppose.

Wait, what? You know for a fact that we have to worry about actual serial killers in addition to the mafia? And you think it's more important to emphasize a Chelsea threat?

kill alphabeta because

1. He was suspicious of DanielH to begin with, dropped the suspicion, and today came back with claims that DanielH is Chelsea and he knew all along. That makes me think he might not even be entirely truthful.

2. If DanielH was Chelsea, it would have made sense for him to convert Alphabeta the night after he expressed suspicion. Let's say DanielH is Chelsea. Alphabeta is obviously not. I can't speak for DanielH's motives and obviously this alone isn't enough evidence for anybody's roles or lack thereof, but in my mind it doesn't entirely add up.

3. He has been less transparent than DanielH. He gives vague reasons for his actions (I knew something all along and I thought I could use it to my advantage and now I can't) sounds sinister.

4. It was mentioned earlier that a Chelsea faction isn't a huge threat because they have a few people they know not to vote for and their chances of randomly voting to kill a mafia member is slightly more. so even if DanielH is Chelsea, I'm currently more concerned about the mafia and the possible existence of a serial killer.

Why don't we try to kill at least one mafia member before going on a Chelsea witch hunt?

I've been utterly lost with all of this, but you make a good point. Change vote: alphabeta

I agree with pistachi0n.

alpha, if you are mafia we will know soon enough. if you are Addy, then i sincerely believe you are playing against your win condition because if there is a serial killer then we should focus on that first, if there is a Chelsea, you could work together with her to identify all templates as quickly as possible and thus eliminate the mafia as quickly as possible securing your own win condition that way (whether your win condition has anything to do with killers being dead, or power templates being alive, or anything else that i can think of.)

You could, at the very least, have answered questions posed to you when you first roleclaimed about who is definitely not mafia for sure. Not "Andais is Charlie" type info that would have endangered Andais[1], a simple "not mafia" or "mafia" would have done beautifully. The mafia already know who is not mafia, so you wouldn't have been helping them to tell them what they already know and you would have been helping all of us. Instead, you demured.

vote alphabeta, for being mafia or for playing against win condition, or both (and to demonstrate that alpha hasn't Chelsead me either)

[1] I am using Andais as an example because I don't think you did or could have known about him since he died on Day 1

Andais died on Day 2; Alphabeta could theoretically have known about them.

I’m curious what the difference is between a Charlie and a Sherlock in this game. We’ve been assuming they’re both cops. I guess it doesn’t particularly matter unless somebody has resurrection.

The thing about DanielH is that he is smart. When I say smart, I mean 'calculating and measured as hell.' I would genuinely not put it past him to create an aura of transparency instead of actually being transparent. It's his strongest defense, actually, that aura of transparency. Underestimating him because he is apparently transparent is a bad idea, don't do it. Think about it. His posts are so carefully measured, his defenses are, to a first glance, ironclad, but when you actually poke at them, there is no backup. He says he's an Eights. He doesn't offer the 'what I did on night x' as proof, he offers the claim he made at the beginning of the game. I invite him to decrypt those, too, to see more actual proof rather than just believing him. Sorry, Daniel, but you are too damn smart for me to not take this very, very seriously. I cannot just pretend you're an innocent bystander, because while you act like one, I have reason to suspect you're good at acting like one.

I suspect that it changes the win condition, not prevents someone from voting. Because if I were Shoal, and I were Chelsea'd, my best option would be to vote against the Chelsea and then argue against their Chelsea-hood based on that fact. Sort of like Shoal is doing. The best defense for DanielH is, ironically, an offense. Just not quite in the way that phrase is ordinarily used.

I also don't think that DanielH voting against Alphabeta is indicative of anything, either. Because he's obviously trying to kill him. But recall, Chelsea's the one with the power. It's possible it can be used on oneself, and it's also possible that Chelsea's win condition can't be changed by being hit with their own power. Addy seems like they get a copy of the power itself, but I suspect that there are secondary aspects of a template that Addy's power copy can't get.

You see what I mean when I say none of this is actually proof, but it seems like it? This is dangerous as hell. I'm a little frightened.