Elfthreads!

[DanielH]

Oaths do respect the use/mention distinction, which is why people are willing to report oaths. You can sweat in foreign languages in at least the In Space version, but I think even then you need to intend to swear something?

[Nemo]

Aredhel and mostly-Fingon, in a conversation about Aredhel's son.

She shoots him a sharp glance.

Was this a pun. If so, it was a great one.

[Unbitwise]

I was thinking about Bella and Lúthien's discretion problem, and here is a wacky solution which involves no fragile deceptions or immediate practical consequences:

Bella can use her gem-driven-body powers to pretend to be a boy now. Elves do gender transition like that and even if "and I discovered my love the same day" isn't also a thing, she's not an Elf and could be arbitrarily weird.

Of course, this requires Bella to be OK with living like that for however long.

[DanielH]

It would probably go over better with people in general if they pretended she had switched to a boy, after hearing elves could do that and realizing she could too, and then they got married, and then she decided she didn’t like being a boy after all. It’s a less fragile deception than any others I can think of. She could even switch boy and back, now, so that she can more effectively lie by implication instead of inclusion.

[Adelene]

It would probably go over better with people in general if they pretended she had switched to a boy, after hearing elves could do that and realizing she could too, and then they got married, and then she decided she didn’t like being a boy after all. It’s a less fragile deception than any others I can think of. She could even switch boy and back, now, so that she can more effectively lie by implication instead of inclusion.

I'm not actually sure Lúthien's parents would react better to that, though. Seems like they might be really pissed at Bella for, like, damaging their daughter or something, since - by their logic, probably - Lúthien then isn't actually married and can never be.

[Ezra]

Well, we ourselves know from Kib's thread that the Valar might still consider them married; but the Valar don't make themselves available for comment in Doriath. Maybe somebody could petition Ulmo to say whether their marriage is valid or not.

But really, the fact of their continuing marriage should be visible to any elf that cares to look; that's the whole issue.

[DanielH]

Their marriage very obviously exists. I was using information in Kib’s thread to make my suggestion, though. It probably wouldn’t be as good as if Bella actually transitioned more permanently, but probably more acceptable than having Lúthien just marry a woman. Even if Bella had been unambiguously male since birth, though, this wouldn’t be the most accepted of marriages; late teens/early twenties is not marriageable age for elves and it is hard to accept that humans age differently.

[Paradox]

Thingol isn't really reacting any worse to Bella than he did to Beren in canon so I don't think Bella pretending to be a boy would really help regardless.

[anthusiasm]

So, who else really wants not evil!Maitimo to meet Grimdarda!Findekáno?

(Also: Elspeth is fabulous)

(guess who finally caught up on overwhelm them with honesty)

[Moriwen]

So, who else really wants not evil!Maitimo to meet Grimdarda!Findekáno?

+1000000