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Re: Daevinity Worldbuilding Info

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:35 pm
by DanielH
Does the answer about daeva starting also apply to ex-summoners? It seems likely but I wanted to check.

During concordances, is there usually personal meeting time possible between trains? Can a fairy go to a Heaven concordance in order to change the look of their wings in some way, could friends who don’t happen to be angel and demon interact personally, etc.?

Re: Daevinity Worldbuilding Info

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:12 pm
by Alicorn
Yes, it does.

Usually not. There's a huge volume of mail - there's billions of daeva and they only get a few concordances! You might be able to finesse it if you and the person you want to talk to both work for the post.

Re: Daevinity Worldbuilding Info

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:29 pm
by DanielH
How often do daeva ask to be paid in other daeva summons? This would be useful for friends/family, body modifications from angels, things from demons, etc. Presumably the last category doesn’t happen very often because of Demon Speciesism.

Re: Daevinity Worldbuilding Info

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:58 pm
by pedromvilar
Fairies don't have speciecism against demons.

Re: Daevinity Worldbuilding Info

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:01 pm
by Aestrix
Humans do, though. So that makes them less willing to summon a demon for a fairy.

Re: Daevinity Worldbuilding Info

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:49 pm
by Throne3d
A bunch of questions, possibly some repeats.
Questions
Throne: Are there specific social structures that appear frequently in Daevinity Heaven or can I basically make up whatever I want as an origin story for a character?
Alicorn: I don't have it super developed
the nature of the place makes it hard to go "away" without going "through", cause it's all fluff caves so, their social structures probably accommodate that
Throne: hard to leave a city (or whatever)?
Alicorn: it's not that it's hard to leave, it's that there's no *nowhere*
in fairyland or limbo or hell you can go find some nowhere that nobody's bothered with ever
in heaven, it's all hollowed out for a purpose

Throne: if you use cloud fluff to produce air, do you get more air in volume?
Could an angel dig a cave out of a city and then replace the cloud fluff behind them, blocking off the path?
Alicorn: angels can decrease or increase mass and volume both to within certain tolerances-at-a-time
and yes
Throne: Can an angel produce infinite matter, in that case?
Alicorn: Well, unlimited. infinite matter would take infinite time.
Throne: would a non-summoner angel start off knowing this or would they have to figure it out?
I'm not totally clear on what knowledge they actually have on the limits of their magical capabilities
Alicorn: in the same sense that if they are presented with a problem that could be trivially solved by moving their arm they move their arm, if they are presented with a problem that could be trivially solved by an (elementary application of) their magic they do that.
they have to experiment to discover how good they are at, like, dancing, or more complicated magic.
Throne: does their ability at more complicated magic vary between individuals of the species, are there hard limits on some of them not found with others, does it just require practice, do some find it easier to get to similar levels of ability?
(taking the 'dancing' analogy, would some be like Bells and be clumsy or would they all start off with a basic ability and work up)
Alicorn: basic ability is flat across the species
Throne: going back to the 'unlimited mana creation' thing, they'd know that they can increase mass and volume and would therefore know that they could create unlimited amounts of matter, starting from a small amount, if they tried?
Alicorn: Yeah.

Throne: "About 99% of daeva (this proportion has been dropping since magic became common knowledge and used to be higher) are naturally occurring." is in the worldbuilding thread – is this accurate?
I had the impression that ex-summoner daeva were something like 1 in a million
Alicorn: used to be more like that, but there keep being more summoners and natural occurrences have not sped up
Throne: so it's ~99% in 2100 or 2150 or whenever?
Alicorn: yeah.

Throne: do you have any estimates on how long it'd take an angel to get from appearing to being good at healing minor wounds, to being a certified medical angel?
Alicorn: depends, are they like taking classes or just poking at it
Throne: would take classes
Alicorn: probably after they're fluent in a language classes are offered in they can get basic medical angel certs (maybe not fancy specialist stuff) in 10-15 years depending on aptitude
Throne: Do you have any idea how long it'd take to get fluent? I'm not sure if they would learn like a child and it'd be relatively fast to get fluent or slowly like it apparently is for an adult.
Alicorn: Adults can actually learn faster than children if they put comparable effort in, they just almost never do - but daeva who don't have a language yet typically will
so like, a year, two maybe

Throne: would a relatively new angel be able to unproblematically change their looks, or should they get some medical training first?
Alicorn: they could at least do things like coloration
if they did anything more elaborate they might wind up healing from it but could probably eventually get the result they wanted with some trial and error

Throne: Theo would appear as an angel and therefore probably have some weird arrangement of features, but he'd want to look 'normal human' as soon as he finds out this is a thing
would other angels likely know that features cluster and how they cluster, or would he need to interact with summoners to find this out? (or does it depend on where he is in heaven? I guess it might be that)
Alicorn: they know how human ethnicities work, although this isn't considered really important information to give a new angel first thing or anything

Throne: wrt concordances "On a regular basis with several years between each event" – is there a set number of years?
also is there a particular order that the concordances cycle through?
Alicorn: I don't remember if I ever set a number of years
and yes
Throne: do you have the order determined?
Alicorn: no, although I've probably implied bits of it hither and yon

Throne: do daeva only appear with natural hair colors?
Alicorn: yes.
Throne: do they ever appear with piercings or tattoos?
Alicorn: No.

Throne: can a daeva kill themselves (by considering their head not to be invulnerable and destroying it), or would it reheal automatically?
Alicorn: Reheals.

Throne: Do you have any names for Angel languages?
Alicorn: not that I can remember

Throne: What are the typical bindings for an angel? Can't do magic outside the circle, can't harm anyone, can't do things that aren't part of the agreed-upon task?
Is there common variation? iirc gags are rare for angels
Alicorn: gags are rare for angels and I usually avoid specifying bindings in too much detail because if I want a binding to have been competent I don't want to suddenly think of a loophole ten pages later

Throne: The daeva museum things – I assume they aren't very common? Are they well known about, how often do they happen/have they happened, are they stopped by applicable laws in ~2150?
the ones where they summon them and don't give them an agreement nor do they send them back
Alicorn: uncommon, illegal (but not too hard to do illegally if you want)

Throne: can circles target "a daeva" instead of e.g. "an angel"? (any of the daeva species, instead of any individual of a species)
Alicorn: nope.
Throne: if the circle is trying to target an individual, can you leave it loose enough to catch, e.g., "all angels with the syllable/sound 'ed' in their name", or "all angels with the name 'fred'"? Do you have to uniquely identify someone for it to go through?
Alicorn: Uniquely identify.
Throne: Can the circle have constraints such as "if you have blue eyes you may not leave the circle, otherwise you are free"? If yes, does this change if the "otherwise" binding is "you must not harm anyone"?
Alicorn: No contingencies.

Throne: They start off with nothing but the knowledge of how to move and how to use their magical abilities (in the fundamental way)?
Alicorn: yup
Throne: Do they have the knowledge of how to make specific sounds, or do they have to figure that out through trial and error…?
Alicorn: They are reasonably good at that.
Throne: If Theo had just started, presumably he feels the summons feeling (if someone is trying to summon an angel at the time). If he took the summons, he gets the fluency of the summoner in some language. Would this fluency improve his ability to make the sounds necessary (you said "reasonably good")?
Alicorn: He'd be fluent in the language, up to and including fluent ability to pronounce the phonemes in it.

Throne: I assume they can start with birthmarks?
Alicorn: Hmmmmmm
Tempted to say no but you can ignore me and I won't pout
Throne: Can they start with things like skin conditions? (e.g. psoriasis or eczema)
Alicorn: No.

Throne: Daeva can only leave a typical circle after agreeing to a trade – is this built into the binding or some required feature of a binding by the magic system, or…?
Alicorn: Built deliberately into the binding.

Throne: … Someone says daeva can tell what the bindings are in advance? I don't recall hearing this, so would appreciate a yay/nay on it.
Alicorn: can't.

Throne: You presumably can't alter the binding after the daeva has been summoned?
And – does erasing the circle erase the binding?
Alicorn: Right; it does not.

Throne: can daeva appear with dwarfism? can daeva appear short like Miles? (I don't think he can have the "weirdly breaking bones" thing, though?)
Alicorn: no. yes. right.

Throne: can they have allergies? (both can they start with it and could they retain them as ex-summoner) I assume they would be prevented from dying of them because of the invulnerability thing, but could they have hay fever or get mild annoyance
Alicorn: no

Throne: For a summoner to dismiss a daeva, they have to focus on wanting the daeva gone for a minute? Is 'a minute' actually a minute, or is it like 45 or like 90 seconds or something?
Alicorn: It's very close to a minute but not identical.
I don't have a precise figure.
But more like 58 seconds than like 45, definitely.

Throne: If a demon attempts to create a kilogram of material (if they can specify that?), what definition of kilogram does it use – what they expect it to use, the actual one (currently some actual weight in France, I believe), or…?
Alicorn: they can specify a kilogram and would get either whatever definition they consider authoritative or if there is no such an approximation of the definitions
Throne: Can they specify things in molar values, volumes, things like "500kg or 500 liters, whichever's lowest"?
Alicorn: yes; yes; no.

Re: Daevinity Worldbuilding Info

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:04 pm
by DanielH
I think you forgot to label Alicorn’s response about language learning speed.

Cam gave the length of the concordance cycle at 12 years in Incandescence, I believe.

Earlier in the thread you said a deal was an atomic concept in bindings; are you changing that or did you mean here that the summoner needed to explicitly invoke this atomic concept?

Re: Daevinity Worldbuilding Info

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:26 pm
by Throne3d
I did! Thank you, I've fixed that.

Re: Daevinity Worldbuilding Info

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:52 pm
by Alicorn
The summoner must explicitly invoke that concept.

Re: Daevinity Worldbuilding Info

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:41 pm
by Throne3d
More questions and answers
Throne: how would medical training work with angels? they can't just spawn basement dwellers, I don't think, 'cause they can't do that level of detail, so is it all by arranging summoning to allow them to do things to cadavers or live subjects on Earth, or by practicing on each other…?
Alicorn: There are populations of animals in Heaven, and they can practice some things on those. They can also practice on each other and learn principles but not have a chance to practice until they get a summon that permits.
Throne: how do they get the animals? concordances?
Alicorn: concordances and they can take them home as summon payment.
Throne: oh, right

Throne: angels in emergency rooms: I expect arrangements such as hiring an angel to be available for a week/month would be common? or perhaps a circle mostly pre-drawn and a standard phrasing?
the latter would have issues of chancing getting a bunch of angels without medical training, I guess
Alicorn: Yeah, it's common to have regular or long-term arrangements with angels.

Throne: I get the feeling that humans treat daeva more as tools than people, for the most part?
Alicorn: Depends on the human, but that's pretty common.
Throne: I am guessing that there are no large rights groups or something asking that summoners treat them like people?
Alicorn: Not large ones. Small ones probably a few.

Throne: Is there anything that prevents a demon from being summoned with (the demon having) a bomb?
Alicorn: Binding'll hedge it out as with legible clothing if it's a good binding.
Throne: legible clothing?
Alicorn: can't show up in a T-shirt that says "I will make you whatever you want if you summon me ungagged and let me call my mom"
if the circle has a gag.
Throne: ah
when you say "hedge it out" – does it physically remove it from the daeva (and put it nearby), prevent them from bringing it along, not allow them to answer the summons?
Alicorn: the latter.
Throne: Hm. Is this because a gag is special in some respect, or can you specify, again, "do not allow people with blue eyes to respond to this summons"?
Alicorn: I have a principled distinction in mind but I am having trouble verbalizing it.
…Bindings let you control what the daeva you get is doing but not which daeva it is.
Throne: So you could request a daeva who is presently swimming?
if so, does the summons stop allowing them to answer it as soon as they stop swimming?
Alicorn: not swimming.
it lets you summon a daeva who will be in compliance with bindings that are about what they are doing and what they have in the circle when they appear.
Throne: if they were swimming and summoned, the water presumably comes along with them?
like, in their hair or something, or are they just suddenly dry?
Alicorn: they appear wet but not with a volume of surrounding water
Throne: so you couldn't specify "must be wet when they appear in the circle"? Or you could?
Alicorn: I guess I'd let you specify that they can't drip on the carpet. I am more dubious about specifying that they must drip on the carpet.
Throne: a binding could do something like "the daeva must not have poison or knives on them", in that case?
Alicorn: I guess…
Throne: The gag binding would apply to languages that the summoner doesn't understand (wrt hedging out legible clothing), I assume?
Alicorn: yup.

Throne: is the angel cloud material magic?
as in, could it be replicated through nonmagical means without angel intervention or not?
Alicorn: it is "not magic" in the sense that daeva can make it
but I don't have a substance that it actually is or a way to make it without magic.

Throne: What's the range for what an angel can change? Do they have to be able to see it?
Alicorn: Shortish, like less than a block. Not strictly but it helps a lot.

Throne: how do people get into a concordance? is there a specific point that contains a portal or something?
Alicorn: there's an area which becomes an overlapped area.
things exiting in some directions continue into one world, and things exiting in other directions continue into the other.
Throne: does it act like a wall if you try to go out the wrong direction? irrelevant, just curious
Alicorn: no, daeva always continue into their own worlds, other stuff just doesn't
Medical training, ER angels, daeva: tools or people, valid binding conditions, whether the cloud material is magic, angel range, concordances.