Alicornutopia

I definitely see where you're coming from, yeah.

I do think that the main Effulgence pairings are a lot less same-y than Adarins and Bells. Like, we all know that Adarins and Bells are Perfect Soulmates to the point where the universe will bend over backwards to set them up together. The relationships differed to a point, but they were basically the same: they're gonna end up as a soppy, snarky, megalomaniac couple no matter what. Effulgent pairings have a lot more room for variation, and the authors are good at playing that up in interesting ways. (Examples: Arcane and Promise interact very differently Minus and Juliet, and Chi's relationship with Dao is...slightly different than Shell Bell's relationship with Chainsaw).

I’m not sure I agree. None of the other Bells and Jokers have had the relationship problems of Butterfly and Trouble, for example.

DanielH wrote:None of the other Bells and Jokers have had the relationship problems of Butterfly and Trouble, for example.

Definitely don't agree with this! There is a spectrum, and Butterfly and Trouble are near one of its ends, but they're not even the most extreme. This old post of Kappa's lists Kas as the least happy Effulgence!Joker, for example, and I'm pretty sure that's entirely because of his current relationship with Amariah. In addition to them, the Alice/Stella relationship comes to mind as going through very bad relationship problems (when Alice found out Stella's ulterior motive for vampiring him).

I wouldn't tend to list Bells-and-Jokers who are in relationships on the same spectrum as Bells-and-Jokers who are not.

When I said “relationship problems”, I meant it in a general sense, not specifically a romantic one. I don't think either Kas/Amariah or Alice/Stella really approach the level of trouble that those two have.

DanielH wrote:When I said “relationship problems”, I meant it in a general sense, not specifically a romantic one. I don't think either Kas/Amariah or Alice/Stella really approach the level of trouble that those two have.

tw: suicide/death

Well, I don't think Kas/Amariah or Alice/Stella are at a stage where the Joker could cause the Bell's to kill their loved ones and then commit suicide, so there is that.

I like Bells, but I sometimes do miss the lack of... dunno, variety? that comes from the green moieties because the stories always have Bells as protagonists. I don't think we should have the same level that Alice/Stella had, unless it turns out to be under different circunstances that can make the situation new again.

This is me registering my intent to participate further in this discussion later today, once I have written down all my thoughts on the subject in chart form.

Bluelantern wrote: Well, I don't think Kas/Amariah or Alice/Stella are at a stage where the Joker could cause the Bell's to kill their loved ones and then commit suicide, so there is that.

Wait, WHAT?! Is that somehow the plan for that world!? In what way does thst make ANY SENSE?

Bluelantern wrote: I like Bells, but I sometimes do miss the lack of... dunno, variety? that comes from the green moieties because the stories always have Bells as protagonists.

I agree, but don't particularly mind because they're one of my favorite templates.

DanielH wrote:

Bluelantern wrote: Well, I don't think Kas/Amariah or Alice/Stella are at a stage where the Joker could cause the Bell's to kill their loved ones and then commit suicide, so there is that.

Wait, WHAT?! Is that somehow the plan for that world!? In what way does thst make ANY SENSE?

Oh, no, I pretty sure it isn't, at least it is nothing that came from Alicorn, it is just speculation-and-possible-scenario-in-my-head.

The general idea is that:

Butterfly might not want to be captured and allow her loved ones and friends being captured. I mean, reaaaally the situation is about as bad as it can get for a Bell, Butterfly needs to fight a mind-controller invasions which ought to account for her worst fears and she has to do this while handling Trouble, who express his love by compromising the situation's security (and Butterfly has to apologize afterwards). TBH, I think that is more likely for Butterfly to do be naturally immune to Yerks or end up being the host of one for a time and then jumping off a cliff at first opportunity, but that still sounds unlikely for what the narrative ought to go.

DanielH wrote:

Bluelantern wrote: I like Bells, but I sometimes do miss the lack of... dunno, variety? that comes from the green moieties because the stories always have Bells as protagonists.

I agree, but don't particularly mind because they're one of my favorite templates.

Oh, yeah, I love bells, and they are very unique when compared to other protagonists, it is just... an obvious and easy direction to improve things.

DanielH wrote:

Bluelantern wrote: Well, I don't think Kas/Amariah or Alice/Stella are at a stage where the Joker could cause the Bell's to kill their loved ones and then commit suicide, so there is that.

Wait, WHAT?! Is that somehow the plan for that world!? In what way does thst make ANY SENSE?

I read this as taken from the original Joker canon where he tricks Batman into letting Rachel Dawes die rather than a commentary on Effulgence.