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Re: Hi

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:23 am
by DanielH
I understand and have previously also wondered Yandal’s question about Alice. Do you not understand the question, in which case I can try to ask differently (I came to the same concerns from a completely different direction), or do you understand it but not know how to answer (in which I could say what I think the answer is and you can correct me if I’m wrong)?

Re: Hi

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:02 am
by Yadal
cbhacking wrote:Greetings and welcome!

I feel I may as well chime in here as somebody who had some of the same reservations as you (I've been reading what is now called Glowfic since there was only Effulgence, and the forum didn't exist yet). Some things you may want to know:
1) First a little terminology: Peal as verb means a character/world meeting those in other worlds. Specifically, instances of (Isa)Bell(a) (usually surnamed Swan) that have met other Bells (referred to as "instances of the Bell template"); the collection of pealed Bells are, collectively, referred to as "the peal". There are currently a number of "un-pealed" Bells whose stories are, in effect, standalone... though this will not last.
2) If you're really strongly spoiler-averse, reading the canons you haven't read yet but would like to read *will* result in spoilers, though you won't necessarily know which parts are "real" and which aren't. In general, though, Effulgence is well worth it. I read a number of canons that I'd have liked to consume the originals of first, and despite being pretty spoiler-averse I feel the trade was worth it.
3) If you really want to avoid a given continuity (for reasons of spoilers or otherwise) you will have a hard time making it any further in the peal threads (that is, those of worlds which are interconnected) once that continuity peals.
4) Unless you have significant reasons not to, just read the stories in the order that they're listed on the index. Some are long and some are short, some are more fun to read than others, and some of them aren't *required* for continuity... but in general, it would be hard (for me) to pick out the ones that won't leave holes in continuity. Read them straight through and you don't have to worry, plus you'll probably have more fun. If you're like most of us on the forum, you'll run out and find yourself wanting more soon enough!
5) The degree to which I like a canon had little enough effect on the degree to which I like the relevant Effulgence (or other glowfic) that I really wouldn't worry about it. Hell, Alicorn herself dislikes at least one of the source canons, but that chunk of Effulgence is nonetheless good.
6) Not actually relevant to Effulgence per se, but: Many of "sandboxes" (glowfic stories, usually short-running, that are not part of any of the established canonical continuities but may cross between them; you might call some of it auto-meta-fanfic I guess?) involve Elcenia. I would definitely recommend reading Elcenia first (though you should do that anyway, whether you plan to read the relevant sandboxes or not).
1., 2., 3.: Noted. Thanks.

4., 5.: The problem is that I don't know a lot of these continuities and I doubt the story will introduce them to somebody who's never heard of the relevant works.

6.: What's this Elcenia you speak of? It's not on the Canons list.

Re: Hi

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:52 am
by Adelene
Yadal wrote:4., 5.: The problem is that I don't know a lot of these continuities and I doubt the story will introduce them to somebody who's never heard of the relevant works.
It actually does a pretty good job of that. I'm passingly familiar at best with most of the source canons, and while I do get the impression that I'd be getting more detail and depth if I went and read them, I was never actually lost because I hadn't.
6.: What's this Elcenia you speak of? It's not on the Canons list.
Elcenia.

Re: Hi

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:29 am
by Yadal
Ah. Got it. Maybe I'll try adding them to my reading lists.

One last thing. When I'm done with my first draft, can somebody tell if it would be appropriate if I make a post in "Storytime" asking for advice? It's not actually complete at that point so I don't want to simply submit it, but I might break the rules by accident.

Re: Hi

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:38 am
by Adelene
Go for it. Worst case scenario if you get the wrong spot is that Alicorn or I will move it to the right one. (We don't bite, honest. ^^)

Re: Hi

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:23 am
by Alicorn
DanielH, I genuinely don't understand the question, you can try phrasing it your way if you want.

Your first draft and posts about it would be better suited for Creations than Storytime.

Re: Hi

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:02 am
by Bluelantern
I eagerly wait yadal's metafanfic! Welcome onboard.

Re: Hi

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:05 pm
by DanielH
I’m on my phone, but: precognition is scary. If there is any way for Alice to get Bella’s secrets, she can figure it out without Bella knowing anything; in that way, it can be like mindreading. If there is any way to manipulate Bella into loving Edward—any combination of lies, outside threats, bribery, etc—she can know. In this way, it’s like the memory-wiping loop Cait tried on Maureen, but harder for the subject to detect. There is no realistic way for Alice to fail at making Bella love Edward, whatever Edward’s personal qualities. She could make Bella love him if he were still actively a serial killer, by knowing how to effectively cover this up. She could make Bella love him even if he could read her, by telling Edward to lie about this.

Bella knew that a precog was directly, personally interfering with her life and had no reason to believe the precog had her best interests at heart. That should be absolutely fucking terrifying even if she did not keep large portions of her brain on paper in an easily readable format. When Alice can also read all Bella’s notebooks, even the ones she has not actually written, Alice has nigh-unlimited ability to harm Bella.

Re: Hi

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:17 pm
by Alicorn
Okay. This is true. However, this is not more true because Alice told Bella about her having precog abilities. Bella also witnesses Alice totally fucking up (their conversation over lunch, and for that matter saving Bella from the van, is not a case of Alice smoothly causing Bella to suspect nothing). So, Alice makes an uncoerced bid for fairly free information-sharing by mentioning at all that she's a precog, and demonstrates that she is not actually a dictionary-attack master manipulator, pretty early on.

Re: Hi

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:09 pm
by jalapeno_dude
Alicorn wrote:Okay. This is true. However, this is not more true because Alice told Bella about her having precog abilities. Bella also witnesses Alice totally fucking up (their conversation over lunch, and for that matter saving Bella from the van, is not a case of Alice smoothly causing Bella to suspect nothing). So, Alice makes an uncoerced bid for fairly free information-sharing by mentioning at all that she's a precog, and demonstrates that she is not actually a dictionary-attack master manipulator, pretty early on.
(Of course, "fucking up" had the effect of making Bella trust her and share information, so one could argue that it would be *precisely* the thing that a dictionary-attack master manipulator *would* do!)