Alicornutopia

another thing that exists: reincarnation, and at least some people (heroes definitally, others maybe) live in the world of dreams between lives. if you were adhering strictly to cannon, joker and bella might be born and meet each other and fall in love and die and are reuinited in the world of dreams and then are born again, forgetting everything, and then find each other again, and fall in love and die and are reuinted in the world of dreams and remember all their previous lives together. or joker being joker he might pursue batsy in one life and then bella in the next life and zeus in a third.

hahahahahahahaha

Okay, this is sounding increasingly fascinating XD

I bet Bells would be displeased with this mechanic of reincarnation, but a Joker might not mind so much.

Actually on that topic in general I think it would be really cool to see an Effulgence setting where reincarnation happens and people get reunited in between lives, with each installment being either a summary of how various characters' lives go this time around or various characters meeting up in between cycles and catching up with each other. I think I'd be pretty much equally happy if this were actually literally spiritually the case or if it were achieved through sci-fi means like, eg, "Real Life" is a popular immersive persistent MMO world that you can plug into and it gives you a lifetime's worth of experiences in a few hours of playtime, though I don't know if Bells would be into that sort of thing.

... Okay that's kind of super cool XD I'd be more articulate but I am currently in bed, good night everyone

that would be really cool, tamien

Tamien wrote:Are Cassidy and Grey from the sequels? ... What are Cassidy and Grey like?

Cassidy is a Rose jeweled (aka very low power), and widely considered to be plain, Queen who gets sent by Janelle to help Dena Nehele* pick up the pieces in the aftermath of the end of the third book at the request of Theran. Theran is the current dominant power in Dena Nehele and is displeased at not getting someone more "glamorous". Grey is Theran's abused cousin who had been tortured by the tainted Queens, is mentally lagging his physical age quite a few years as a result, but falls for Cassidy and has to attempt to put himself back together.

*If you didn't mean "Invisible Ring" by "prequel" then this is a random-but-beloved-of-Daemon country in Terreille

Tamien wrote:The world of the Dresden Files could be interesting but I've only managed to read the first book

Fun fact: The first Dresden book (possibly the first three?) were written by Jim Butcher for a creative writing class as a commentary on how awful and mass produced and cookie cutter modern fantasy has gotten. And his teacher of course loved it and sent it to a publisher, and he has since attempted to write actual books. I'm not a fan of the first three myself, but the rest are quite good. I enjoy the "everything you do will have consequences forever rather than just being ignored" type of writing.

Alicorn wrote:I can't stand Brandon Sanderson.

I get this reaction a lot, actually. And even if I don't agree, I can see it pretty easily. (In particular I don't think he's good with dialogue, at all.)

Alicorn wrote:Never heard of Mercy Thompson

Mercy Thompson's world is probably best summarized as "fairy tales are real as set in modern America"? Mercy is a mechanic in Seattle who is a Native American shapeshifter (coyote) on her father's side; because the population of such is tiny, she's raised by werewolves instead. I was mostly thinking the Joker for this world, probably as an Omega wolf. Omega wolf: Omega because Omegas have a special status in the pack which is basically 'screw you I have no official rank, I have whatever rank I please' (Jokers would... not do well with formal, magically enforced pack structures), and werewolf because werewolves only become werewolves by being mauled to the point of almost-death, and as Kappa is fond of saying, such things cause Jokers to cluster eagerly in line.

Kappa wrote:Yeah, as much as I love Mercedes Lackey in a fond-nostalgia way, none of her settings are good enough to be worth making Alicorn read them.

I have read a lot of Mercedes Lackey. I *enjoyed* a MUCH smaller quantity of Mercedes Lackey. I was simply thinking that from a plot perspective, the idea of the 500 Kingdoms would be infuriating to a Bell. The Tradition, aka magic, is a Force of Nature that actively spends all its time forcing certain people to live out their lives matching fairy tale plotlines. Generally without regard for things like "age differences between Cinderella and her prince" or "sexual orientation of Sleeping Beauty" or "this fairy tale requires people to die on thorns for two years before Rapunzel May Be Rescued". But if Alicorn doesn't like Mercedes Lackey, I can't think of any 500 Kingdoms books worth reading just to get a feeling for the world :)

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Another thing that occurred to me: Anne Bishop, of Black Jewels discussion, has started a new series called The Others. It's not really complete enough for a thread, and not really written well enough to be worth it regardless, but for Joker-perking reasons: the main character is a blood prophet, or cassandra sangue (because everything is More Magical in Latin) and sees prophecies when people cut her skin. It's euphoric if she tells someone the prophecy, and excruciatingly painful if she remembers the images herself. All of which sound to me like 'ideal Joker job'. (They're technically all women, but when has that ever stopped a Joker?)

Hehehehehehehehe. The Jokers are pleased with your offerings! :D

Okay so I was going to muse this to Alicorn over IM but then it was too long for gchat to send it, so I will instead make it a post. XD It is about how I think Mystverse linking should work in Effulgence if we hypothetically did a Mystverse (which I don't think we're especially likely to, but it's fun to think about).

me wrote:So in the Mystverse, there's these things called linking books that you can use to travel from one world to another.

When you travel using a linking book, the book you used remains behind in the place where you were, but you can bring as many other books with you as you want. Travelling via book to the same world you're currently in doesn't work, you just don't go anywhere.

You can write a book that links to the world you are currently in, or that links to a new world whose parameters you describe in the book; I don't *think* you can write one that links to a world you've previously visited, and certainly you would have to have an excellent memory if you did, to describe it exactly as it was. (The book doesn't have to contain a *complete* description of the world, but it has to substantially describe at least some particular area.)

If you can get your hands on the very first book ever used to link to a particular world - the "Descriptive Book", it's called - and alter its text, you can produce similar alterations in the relevant world. This process is not described in detail.

My notion is that all these worlds you can link to are subworlds of the Mystverse sheaf, and that if you brought linking books and/or the materials to make new ones out into the broader multiverse, the books would work just the same - but any new books you wrote would only create/find new worlds in the Mystverse sheaf. I feel like that is a good limitation on "interesting new way to travel between worlds".

Also, according to the person who explained the Mystverse to us, any newly linked world that's capable of supporting human life will eventually be found to contain some. I would probably want to change that if we did this, because otherwise I can imagine Bells either wanting no one to ever link a new habitable subworld again (to avoid creating ~extraneous sapient life~ in somebody's domain), or wanting to link tons and tons of new subworlds (to find all those inhabited universes already existing in the sheaf), depending on whether the final word was that linking created new subworlds or just located existing ones. (And I think that if casually creating civilizations isn't a concern, it would be more fun if linking created new subworlds.)

(I don't necessarily think no linked worlds should ever be inhabited, but it should be super rare... maybe it's what happens if you accidentally double-link an existing world you didn't know was there, and there aren't that many of those around and very few of them contain the kind of specific things people write into their linking books, so it doesn't happen that often. IDK, thinking aloud on that part.)

Edited to clarify "work just the same" since Alicorn asked:

me wrote:It means that if you have a book that links to the Mystverse subworld called "Riven", and you take it out of the Mystverse sheaf, and you use it from Milliways or Alethia or wherever you like, you will be transported to Riven and the book will stay where it was when you used it, exactly like what would have happened if you'd used it from within the Mystverse sheaf; and if you have the materials to make a Mystverse linking book, and you take them out of the Mystverse and use them to make a new book describing someplace that hasn't been linked before, and you use it, it will create a new subworld in the Mystverse sheaf and transport you there, just like what would have happened if you'd done that from within the Mystverse sheaf.

Editing again to add in a compilation of Myst-related LPs I have read/watched/glanced at in passing, for my own reference and that of anyone else who's curious:

Mostly-text Myst LP with a bunch of still images and some links to videos. Many early videos are broken. I've read this one.
Video LP of Myst that I haven't watched (yet).
Video LP of Riven (sequel) that I have watched, by the same person as the video Myst.
Video LP of Exile (next sequel) that I am about to watch, by the same person as the other two video LPs.

Have either of you read the Wild Cards series? I consider it Realistic Superhero World done right. Basic premise: A genetically retrovirus (FROM SPACE!) exists which kills 90% of its victims, deforms 9% (to varying degrees of horrific), and gives 1% superpowers. It's dumped into the sky over New York City, superpowers ensue, and everyone reacts sensibly. There's a fad for costumed crimefighting for about a decade, but it passes; most superpowered violence thereafter is government-sponsored, most Aces (the lucky 1%) do something nonviolent and profitable with their lives, and the Jokers (the 9%) and Black Queens (the 90%) make volunteering to get the virus something reserved for people with a death wish and fanatics.

There's also a character (Croyd) who could be Joker-ified easily, I think.

Also on the subject of Realistic Superhero World done right: Strong Female Protagonist!