Templates

[Shoal]

I know that the problems i have in my native language (for example, mixing up pronouns) are present in other languages i'm fluent in, even ones that don't use pronouns but have verbal suffixes. in the case of those languages, i mix up the verbal suffixes. i can understand pronouns (and verbal suffxies) when other people use them, and i can produce the correct ones when i'm trying hard or thinking about pronouns like i am in this post, though. i'm just equally likely to say any of "it, we, i, you, the person, he, she, they" when i'm referring to myself. don't mix up us & we or me & I though. It's actually pretty annoying when I'm fluent in a language but people know I'm not a native speaker and they assume i'm mixing up pronouns because I'm not speaking the language very well and then all kinds of assumptions about whether i'll understand what they're saying to me when I've actually reached the "this is as good as it gets" point of language acquisition. I'm not saying "it makes breakfast" because i don't speak a particular language well, but rather because I am not languaging well at the moment.

or sometimes (especially in speech) there are arbitrary limits on sentence length, sometimes can't do long sentences and find it easiest to use one word sentences -- when in effect this persists across languages but i can get a lot more mileage out of a one word sentence in some languages, using a word that might require 5 or 6 different words in another language.

tl;dr: i think it makes sense that Pen has the same problems across all the languages she speaks. "as fluent as i am in my native language" is a hard limit, I think.

[DanielH]

Most jokers don’t think or talk on-screen about the reasons behind them hating their names. As far as I can tell, the ones who have are all A- or C-cluster, and the only reason I can remember hearing is that they hate their names because their dads gave them those names or also have those names. Why do B-cluster jokers hate their names? The same reasons don’t really apply (unless Reggie named them, which seems unlikely), and yet Corona, Trouble, and Felicity all go by names other than their given ones.

[Kappa]

B-cluster Jokers actually don't hate their given names all that much, definitely not in comparison to A and C. They just don't particularly like them and prefer to go by something that feels more suitable.

[DanielH]

Okay, that makes sense. And since we hear nicknames for them all relatively early, it doesn’t come up much.

Another, semi-related, question: before having met each other, how much would Jokers dislike the names given to other Jokers? I doubt Alice would take kindly to being called by Sue’s given name now, assuming he knows it, but would a pre-pealing Alice mind being called Thomas? It qualifies as “any­thing, up to and including 'fuck you', except that”, so it probably wouldn’t be very bad, but would he just happen to dislike it?

[Kappa]

Heh.

There's no strong tendency for Jokers to dislike other Jokers' birth names, except for the fact that I'm not likely to give any Joker a birth name that is generally appealing to Jokers.

[DanielH]

I imagine there might be circumstances where a Joker would like the name Angel (what daeva would a joker be? I could see arguments for any of the three), but Trouble certainly does not qualify for those.

Are Bells always born before their Alexes? Flicker and Kiri were, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that were a rule, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if it were random.

If Angela resurrected her stillborn sibling, would they grow up to be a Jason or Soph (I forgot their sex), or would they be a new template?

What would happen if you took a Standard Backstory Charlie and Renée, shortly before they got engaged, and introduced them to a Peal? I believe a Bell said she would probably warn them that they would probably get divorced, but what would happen next? Would that change if they were already engaged, had not yet met, or were at any other point in their relationship?

[Alicorn]

Bells are always firstborn, even when they have twins.

The resurrected stillbirth would, if obliged to be alive, be a Jason.

I think they (well, mostly Renée) would inquire after the patterns in when they do and don't get divorced, and then decide to solve the problem by giving Renée hexed teleportation powers so she can approximately mimic Amariah's mom (frequent solo travel and travel with friends, coming home to her Charlie).

[DanielH]

Would they be any happier that way than Amariah’s parents were? Them being unhappily married does not sound like a good solution.

What about if a transportation power wasn’t available? The Incandescent Peal could have worked out something similar, but there are conceivable collections of Bells which don’t have that kind of magic (yet).

[Alicorn]

Amariah's parents aren't that unhappy. The marriage looks really awkward to Amariah, but Bells have a relationship style that is not like their parents'.

In the absence of teleportation, the Renée and Charlie would likely get married anyway (he can't help himself, she thinks they can beat the pattern) and I'm not actually sure if they'd stay together if forewarned or not.

[Bluelantern]

Amariah's parents aren't that unhappy. The marriage looks really awkward to Amariah, but Bells have a relationship style that is not like their parents'.

What are the styles differences?