Alicornutopia

Reason: Show THE COIN proper respect by always capitalizing Its glorious name.

:DDDDD

@BlueSkySprite that was partially tongue in cheek. I agree THE COIN is most probably random chance, either an actual coin, or rolling a dice (even paradox odd jalapeno), or random.org or something equally random. I looked up when the deadline was before making that post for a reason. I might reconsider and flip back to jalapeno when I wake up. i think there's more than one killer left (just going on number of players here). maybe it's both of them.

semi-off-topically, last night i dreamed i was nightkilled and that in addition to the public death scene i got a PM with more details about who killed me (not anyone actually playing the game alas) and stuff. and a spirit guide or something to help me along to the afterlife (the dead player's society hangout thing). i am going to guess none of that actually happens. i am sure if/when it happens i can google how hangouts work. i mostly remember that the whole thing was very detailed without actually remembering the details.

You know, I was going to post at the beginning of the day about how we just gained a free mana crystal, but I thought better of it.

But if Alicorn's going to edit people's messages to capitalize the name of THE COIN, then I definitely have to make that Hearthstone reference immediately upon noticing.

Thatwasademo wrote:Also, Paradox isn't acting much like a Miles (Wouldn't it be great if detecting that were my power? Alas, it is not.) and I would have thought Miles would be a power role (the actual important fact here, that first point is completely meaningless), so I'm going to Vote: Paradox.

Could you explain why you think Miles would be a power role? The power roles that we know about seem to all have an obvious power for them to have, Chelsea being the cult leader, Addy being able to copy powers, Charlie being the cop, Sherlock being an investigative role. I can't think of anything along those lines for Miles.

pistachi0n wrote:My thoughts is that they are both mafia. I am voting for Paradox because the consequences of us being wrong and killing Paradox are less than if we kill jalapeno_dude, but I still think it's a win-win.

I think you're overlooking the fact that mafia are incentivised to claim power roles because they can guess people will be reluctant to kill them.

For miles, I would expect some kind of passive ability -- perhaps one you might not know about. Miles in the series seems to have some sort of plot armour that both attracts weird scenarios and sees him through them. I initially thought some kind of 1-shot bulletproof for Miles for reasons that are probably a spoiler for the Vorkossigan saga but also because in most of the books he gets into some really dangerous situation and comes out of it alive which is a spoiler for every book in this genre not just by this author ;). http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bulletproof Bulletproof is a passive ability that would protect you from a nightkill if you were targeted and wouldn't do anything if you weren't.

There's another role called Nexus, which is vaguely fitting for Miles (or Ivan) which passively redirects anything that targets you from you to another player http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Nexus_(Role)

I don't think we have enough information to figure that out -- so far we haven't seen any known power roles being wrong about something in a way that might point to a nexus (like if Andais had lived, had investigated you, got someone else's result instead), but then we wouldn't be privvy to any private mafia discussions like "wtf we tried to kill paradox last night but ____ died instead" and Daniel never targetted you.

There are lots of different roles http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... gory:Roles and I don't know what all of them do, and Alicorn might have thought of something not on that list.

I think you're overlooking the fact that mafia are incentivised to claim power roles because they can guess people will be reluctant to kill them.

While that's true, and I agree that's a factor, they do have to work with the safeclaim Alicorn gave them. Alicorn seems to have given daniel and alpha safeclaims that were more plausible as power roles and tau got a safeclaim that was more plausible as a vanilla town role. If they try to claim something else, they run the risk of someone else counterclaiming them (though that's smaller risk at this stage when a lot of people have already claimed their rolenames)

back to Miles:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hated is a role also called Fragile sometimes that requires less votes to lynch than usual, which would fit in with Miles having weak bones.

There are lots and lots of different types of cops: vanilla cop to tell if someone is town aligned or not. role cop to tell what role someone has, flavour cop, etc. Miles was an imperial auditor after all.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Strong-Willed -- Miles would have been immune to Cult (actually that makes more sense for Bella, but Miles was stubborn too. they could have both had this as an aspect of their different roles, if there's a Bella too), and additionally Miles could not be Roleblocked or Redirected so he could have been immune to nexus (if someone else was nexus) or immune to jalapeno_dude's matilda thing. But this is a passive role that only makes sense if Miles has some kind of night action.


This is of course all rampant speculation, but I would expect a main character like Miles to have more of a prominent role than someone like Hilary, despite neither of them having magic powers in cannon.

Shoal wrote:This is of course all rampant speculation, but I would expect a main character like Miles to have more of a prominent role than someone like Hilary, despite neither of them having magic powers in cannon.

I really think it has more to do with characters having a power that obviously suits them than how big a role they have in effulgence. Like Charlie isn't a major role but being the cop suits him, Chris is a fairly minor character but she has the power to protect someone because it's her power in canon. There are powers that sorta make sense for Miles but there isn't really anything that stands out as the obvious power to give a Miles in a game of Mafia.

Paradox wrote:

Shoal wrote:This is of course all rampant speculation, but I would expect a main character like Miles to have more of a prominent role than someone like Hilary, despite neither of them having magic powers in cannon.

I really think it has more to do with characters having a power that obviously suits them than how big a role they have in effulgence. Like Charlie isn't a major role but being the cop suits him, Chris is a fairly minor character but she has the power to protect someone because it's her power in canon. There are powers that sorta make sense for Miles but there isn't really anything that stands out as the obvious power to give a Miles in a game of Mafia.

fair enough.

Unofficial vote count (mafia seem to have vote manipulating powers I don't understand):
Jalapeno dude: 4 (Anthusiasm, BlueSkySprite, Paradox)
Paradox: 4 (jalapeno_dude, Pistachi0n, Shoal, Thatwasademo)
Nonvoters: 1 (kuuskytkolme)

I think we do not want it to be at or near a tie, because I'm pretty sure the mafia have vote manipulators from the last vote and if it's at a tie when night falls, they will be able to push it over from the tie onto whichever person they want to die.

I think jalapeno_dude is more likely to be powered mafia than Paradox because he has often blocked the one person still alive who could have identified the mafia members (Alphabeta) and only had crypto for one action, and the rest, barring DanielH who we know was cult, were town, and he did not try targeting many people with his claimed roleblocking to see whether this stopped anyone from dying. Also, last night's vote tally is consistent with one mafia member roleblocking me and one transplanting a vote from tau to Thatwasademo, or with one vote being stolen from tau and one being transplanted from tau to Thatwasademo. It would be weird for there to be a vote-thief and a vote transplanter both on the same side in one game (I think? I have not played a lot of mafia) and also it would be weird for there to be multiple roleblockers on opposite sides (same as previous caveat) so I think it is probably jalapeno_dude roleblocking me and someone else transplanting a vote from tau to Thatwasademo to make it a tie.

Also, as far as I can tell, nobody but jalapeno_dude and pistachi0n has a reason to vote for Paradox. Thatwasademo claims it is because Paradox is not acting like a Miles, but we have all been specifically instructed not to roleplay. Also, the idea that a Miles should have powers and therefore they must be lying does not make a lot of sense to me. Shoal is doing it to push it closer to a tie and might be planning to change their mind later. pistachi0n is voting Paradox because she thinks both of them are mafia and it's better not to lose a power role. I think it's probably more important to kill the powered mafia members, and think jalapeno_dude is probably mafia. jalapeno_dude is I think voting in self-defense?

I think we should probably try to persuade each other to the point of getting it at a clear majority of more than two votes. We have a population of 8 people (Wow. We started with 20.) and I think it would need to be a majority of 6:2. Because if one of the 6 was blocked bringing it to 5:2 and another was transplanted, that would make it 4:3. I'm pretty sure any less than a 3/4 majority (which ends the day early) is small enough for them to turn into a tie, and more than 1 vote less than that is enough for them to just decide who dies.

Please let me know if there is a mistake in my math or analysis of what the mafia can probably do, or other chunks of my logic or post.

I agree with your logic. I also find that jalapeno_dude's behavior has pattern matched to Tau's for most of the game.

I'm very close to switching but my problem is that, if we screwed up and jalapeno_dude isn't mafia, then we've lost an important power role. If we screwed up and Paradox isn't mafia, we've lost someone with no (apparent?) powers.

Actually, yeah, I'm switching. vote jalapeno_dude

vote jalapeno_dude

I do think that it's probably that one or both are mafia, and I think whether they're mafia with extra powers or not is going to be unrelated to what safeclaim they were given because it seems like the kind of thing Alicorn would say this about:

Alicorn wrote:Because I have ever heard of information theory...

(that was in response to my trying to analyse whether jalapeno was or was not innocent based on the fact that alicorn had zapped his post. i think this is probably another area that we're going to be punished for trying to think outside the game and second guess the mod. i think if i were mod i would not arrange such a correlation and would probably assign the safeclaims at random.)

preview edit: hi pistachi0n didn't see you there.