Questions about Visitor

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Bluelantern
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Re: Questions about Visitor

Post by Bluelantern »

Alicorn wrote:Multi-leader situations of any court tend not to be stable. Somebody gets and keeps the upper hand, whether immediately or over a few years. This doesn't mean that they can breed with other fairy kinds, although some can.
Oh, that makes sense.

Kinds come with personalities? The Queen seemed somehow... suited for someone that could become a Queen.
Sorry for my bad english

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Re: Questions about Visitor

Post by Alicorn »

Kinds have trends in personality but there's lots of variation.
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Re: Questions about Visitor

Post by Bluelantern »

Alicorn wrote:Kinds have trends in personality but there's lots of variation.
huuuum, so can I think of this like fantasy races? Like... those guys are the dwarves, they are stoic and industrious and those guys are the elves, they are better at everything and make toys for children?
Last edited by Bluelantern on Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sorry for my bad english

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Re: Questions about Visitor

Post by Alicorn »

Uh, those particular archetypes no but in general sure
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Re: Questions about Visitor

Post by Bluelantern »

Fairy children ever get to play with toys?

What are Yellow's plans? to attack and build his own court?
Sorry for my bad english

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Re: Questions about Visitor

Post by Alicorn »

I don't see why fairies wouldn't ever have toys to keep them occupied while they develop into useful adults.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Yellow's plans".
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Re: Questions about Visitor

Post by Bluelantern »

Alicorn wrote:I don't see why fairies wouldn't ever have toys to keep them occupied while they develop into useful adults.
General "break their spirits so they are easier to use", except is less "break" and more "not develop spirits at all" and I was under the impression that fairies tend to be horrible to each other (most examples we see in details are template characters so you expect them to be not-horrible).
Alicorn wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by "Yellow's plans".
In the Ari sandbox Yellow said something like "they will never expect you" which implies he wants to use Ari for something? He also acquired Promise but that might be regular vassal-keeping.
Sorry for my bad english

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Re: Questions about Visitor

Post by Alicorn »

Fairies are often horrible to each other but it's not consistent, and if you're secure in your mastery of your vassals they can be more useful to you if they have initiative and intelligence.

Yellow anticipated that Ari would be a defensive advantage, maybe an offensive one if he found a target of opportunity. Yellow is not a warlord in progress or anything, just a smalltime mini-court master.
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Re: Questions about Visitor

Post by DanielH »

As I understand it, if Christine from this example had instead changed her name from Christopher to Alexandra, and went by the shortening Ally, then she could still be vassalized by Chris but not Ally. If Ally then said “I'm Christian”, while thinking about her believe in the divinity of Jesus, any fairy who heard just the first two syllables of this sentence would become her master even though she wasn't thinking of anything related to her name at all. Is this right? Would fairies who heard the full sentence and knew Christian was a mortal name become her masters if they didn't try variations like “Chris”?

How does the clicking-into-place of names work? It seems like it would be too powerful, so I think I misunderstand it somewhere. It seems like Promise could be vassalized by any fairy considering her name might be shortenable to Al, Ali, Alys, Alisyr, Alisyrra, Lys, Lisyr, Lisyrra, Syr, Syrra, Syrrabel, Rabel, Bel, or various other possibilities. Depending on how precise the names need to be, Syr might work for Arcane too. As fairy names are often (always?) several syllables long and relatively pronounceable, it seems like it shouldn't be too hard to guess syllables and be right fairly soon, and the clicking-into-place would mean it could be done without alerting the target to what you were trying.

How do name-based nicknames that aren't strict shortenings work? If William, a modern English-speaking American, introduces himself as “Bill”, does that count for vassalization? What about if Williame, the famous 11th-century duke of Normandy and king of England, who popularized the use of the name William in English, introduced himself the same way despite this abbreviation not being common yet? Would these answers change if instead they introduced themselves as Billy or Willy? If the ship Jehovah had been enough of a person to be vassalized (I assume it isn't, but being electronic is not a problem, and both Jane and Jarvis could be vassalized), could it have been vassalized with Jovah or Yovah? How would this list for any given person compare to what Elspeth could truth-voice refer to that person as (as seen in the fifth paragraph of Radiance, where she called Golden “Izzy”)?

What about name translation? If a modern American named William were to introduce himself as Guillaume while speaking French, would this count? What about names with meanings in the language of native speakers; for example, if a fairy tried guessing that Fleur Delacour's name was “Flower”? Is the answer to that different if most people in the culture have meaningful names, as in MLP:FiM? How does this interact with fairy plainspeaking?

If the examples from both previous paragraphs would work, can they stack? Could Sharles, father of Shell Bell, be vassalized with a translation of the word “Shark”, or an American Anglophone named Richard with a translation of the slang word “Dick”?

Finally, how does this interact with forking and merging? Would both Sue and Admiral War have the same not-revealed-in-canon name their birth father had given them, or would one of them be unnamed (or, more likely, named whatever Admiral War had chosen when naming the different forks)? Is that somehow different than the answer for Shell and Bell or Timer and Nathan? What about the version of Juliet with memories of Soph, from before the merge? Would the merged versions of any of these be different? What about the mnemic displacement and mnemic overload victims, pre-Downside-Belling?

While writing this I came up with two other questions (about Beast, with his name stolen from him; Soph, who was called The Key well before everybody remembers Soph being born; and about Mark, who was called by his original's name while growing up), but those are more about the specific enchantment, the specific spell, and Ser Galen's state of mind, respectively, than they are about fairy magic.
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Re: Questions about Visitor

Post by Alicorn »

You have to entertain the hypothesis that the string is a name for the specific person before it clicks/works. So, "I'm a Christian" would not work, nor would "my favorite Phantom of the Opera character is Christine", unless the fairy is testing every sequence of sounds she speaks.

Brute force on soundspace does not work because *handwave plain speech handwave*. I might rule that fairy name shortenings in general don't work.

Bill doesn't work. Willy probably would. Jovah and Yovah don't work. Elspeth is not a good barometer for what works. Transliteration does not work, nor does translation. Cultures like ponies or Kuigao in which people are named things like "Clarity Bell" or "Holly", even if Clarity and Holly prefer to translate their names rather than use the sounds when speaking other languages, still require the sounds in the original language. Shark doesn't work. Dick doesn't either.

...Sue is an interesting case. My initial take is that War is still the birth name and Sue is Sue (and both Ivies are Ivy). kappa might disagree and if it ever came up we'd need to come to an agreement in order for anything to get written so you may consider kappa's opinion effectively canon even if it is not like my own. Both of Shell Bell and Nathan are "Bell" and "Nathan" respectively. The Juliets are both Isabella. Merge of Sue and War might actually yield "Sue", given all the noise going on there; other merges just yield the same name. Mnemic victims who haven't recognized themselves are temporarily nameless due to magic. Paola!Didyme and Benito!John are Didyme and John respectively.

Beast is Beast, because he had no name but was then validly named (the enchantress didn't take all possibility of naming, just the specific original name). Soph is Soph, because it's people who get names, not blobs of key energy. Mark is Miles, poor dear.
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